# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1001 "2015-09-02T19:39:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > . . . I’ve asked you if you understand breakout a few times, and you haven’t responded. If one doesn’t understand breakout, it’s pretty much impossible to understand the substance of the deal. Um… I don’t even know what “breakout” means. Help? I thought I understood the substance of the deal: Iran promises not to build nuclear weapons, and allows inspections to ensure this, and we remove a blortload of nasty economic sanctions which have been harmful to them. What more does an average voter need to know, other than that the two most likely alternatives were a nuclear-armed Iran, or a nasty, aggressive, unilateral war that would lead to a new century of hatred in the region? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1002 "2015-09-02T20:03:06Z")
Okay, I got what “breakout” means. I’m not actually sure I’d agree that the typical U.S. voter needs to know this in order to judge the treaty. It isn’t hugely technical, but it seems to me to be technical enough to be beyond our absolute need to know. Sort of like the fiscal details of the sanctions themselves: all I really need to know is that the sanctions were severely harming the Iranian economy, and thus were effective. I don’t need to know how the U.S. Federal Reserve System participated in isolating the Iranian central bank, etc. etc. On the other hand, the more anyone knows about the deal, the better off they are. Ignorance is not strength. I’m better off knowing what “breakout” means than I could possibly have been without knowing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1003 "2015-09-03T19:23:43Z")
Senators Booker and Warner just announced their support for the deal. That’s up to 36 supporting, along with 2 leaners – if just 3 of the undecideds support the deal, it can’t even get out of the Senate, and a veto won’t be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1004 "2015-09-03T19:38:51Z")
Congrats to my American friends for letting the deal pass! Maybe I’m being too optimistic here, but I have a feeling that even with a Republican in the White House come Jan. 2017, the deal will stand. What say you folks? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1005 "2015-09-03T19:40:40Z")
There won’t be any point in badmouthing it by then. Though God help us if there’s a Republican president for many other reasons. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1006 "2015-09-03T19:41:33Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Congrats to my American friends for letting the deal pass! > > Maybe I’m being too optimistic here, but I have a feeling that even with a Republican in the White House come Jan. 2017, the deal will stand. What say you folks? I think it will stand. Things look different when you’re actually in Oval Office as opposed to scrambling around and fighting to get there. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1007 "2015-09-03T19:46:50Z")
Senator Heitkamp just announced – that makes 37, + 2 leaners. Only two more of the six undecideds needed to filibuster. Seems to be pretty likely to me, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1008 "2015-09-04T03:58:18Z")
Why does it really matter whether they beat a filibuster or not? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1009 "2015-09-04T04:53:15Z")
It doesn’t. But if they threaten a filibuster, and have the numbers to back it up, then they may not have to vote. Nervous Dems don’t have to offend some of their constituents and don’t have to stick their thumb in Obama’s eye. Weather experts expect a very high pressure system of pompous and patriotic bloviation. Republicans are not eager to play ball on this, they think they’ve got a electoral winner here, painting the Dems as soft on Comm…Islam. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1010 "2015-09-04T09:46:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Why does it really matter whether they beat a filibuster or not? Only for political optics. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1011 "2015-09-05T04:30:17Z")
Mark Warner is a “yes”, Ben Cardin is a “no” (damn you Senator Cardin!). That makes 38 definite “yes” votes, + 2 leaners. There are two undecided Democrats, Cantwell and Peters – if either of them go “yes” (plus the leaners), then Obama won’t even have to veto the deal disapproval. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1012 "2015-09-05T16:32:22Z")
I’d like to take personal responsibility for Warner’s decision, since I called his office and lobbied him and his staff a few times a week for the last couple of months. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1013 "2015-09-05T16:44:15Z")
Cheese Louise, guy, I hope you didn’t threaten him with the awesome power of the Dope! That could have consequences! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1014 "2015-09-05T16:47:41Z")
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/09/04/morning-plum-trump-has-a-better-answer-on-iran-than-his-gop-rivals-do-seriously/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/09/04/morning-plum-trump-has-a-better-answer-on-iran-than-his-gop-rivals-do-seriously/) > [@](#): > > …On Morning Joe today, Donald Trump staked out another position that could — or at least should — force a real debate among Republicans that previously might have remained mostly walled off from discussion by GOP orthodoxy. This time the topic was Iran. > > Trump all but ridiculed his GOP rivals for their claim that on Day One, they would promptly tear up the Iran deal into little pieces and flush them down the toilet, along with the rest of the Obama presidency. Trump said that “life doesn’t work that way,” and vowed instead to do a better job implementing it than anyone else, claiming: “I will be so tough.” > > Asked by the Washington Post’s David Ignatius how he’d approach the Iran deal as president, here’s what Trump said: > > ``` > “I think that it is a disastrous deal in so many ways…we have a horrible contract. But we do have a contract. I love to buy bad contracts when people go bust and I make those contracts good…. > > “I know it would be very popular for me to do what a couple of them said, ‘we’re gonna rip it up, we’re gonna rip it up.’… > > “Iran is gonna be an absolute terror, and it’s horrible that we have to live with it. Nevertheless, we have a contract. We lost the power of sanctions because all of these other folks, these other countries that are with us are gone now, and by the way, making money…everybody is involved now with Iran selling themselves. We’re probably going to be the only ones that won’t be selling them anything…. > > “I will make that agreement so tough. And if they break it, they will have hell to pay….Politically, and certainly for the nomination, I would love to tell you that I’m gonna rip up this contract, I’m going to be the toughest guy in the world. But you know what? Life doesn’t work that way.”... > > ``` A tiny bit of sanity from an unexpected source. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1015 "2015-09-06T03:52:43Z")
Trump’s all over the place, but that’s one example of how a business background actually does make one better qualified for the Presidency. Businessmen understand contracts. Politicians don’t believe that their word, or even written pledges, should ever bind them. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1016 "2015-09-06T11:12:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Trump’s all over the place, but that’s one example of how a business background actually does make one better qualified for the Presidency. Businessmen understand contracts. Politicians don’t believe that their word, or even written pledges, should ever bind them. Yeah, Trump’s six bankruptcies prove that his word is his bond. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1017 "2015-09-06T11:18:08Z")
The law is a contract too. Politicians aren’t too fond of law, either, except as an obstacle to be gotten around when they want to do something. Such as revenue bills originating in the House. ACA, as we all know, originated in the Senate. And of course treaties are supposed to be voted on by the Senate, with a 2/3rds vote required for approval. But as wikipedia notes: > [@](#): > > Executive agreements are often used in order to bypass the requirements of national constitutions for ratification of treaties. Many nations that are republics with written constitutions have constitutional rules about the ratification of treaties Ah, gotta love politicians. “Bypass” is the key word in their lexicon. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1018 "2015-09-06T11:38:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The law is a contract too. Oh, my worthy adversary. Have you now joined the Freeman on the Land camp? Because I don’t know any other group that makes a serious statement that the law is a contract. > [@](#): > > And of course treaties are supposed to be voted on by the Senate, with a 2/3rds vote required for approval. There number of executive agreements in force for the U.S. probably numbers into the tens of thousands. Some of these are very consequential, such as the Algiers Accords. The idea that all of those were supposed to be treaties is a ship that sailed very soon after the founding of the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1019 "2015-09-06T12:26:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The law is a contract too. Politicians aren’t too fond of law, either, except as an obstacle to be gotten around when they want to do something. Such as revenue bills originating in the House. ACA, as we all know, originated in the Senate. > > And of course treaties are supposed to be voted on by the Senate, with a 2/3rds vote required for approval. But as wikipedia notes: > > Ah, gotta love politicians. “Bypass” is the key word in their lexicon. This agreement will be voted on in the Senate. The Republicans agreed to an unusual process, but it does include congressional review. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1020 "2015-09-06T15:17:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Trump’s all over the place, but that’s one example of how a business background actually does make one better qualified for the Presidency. Businessmen understand contracts. Politicians don’t believe that their word, or even written pledges, should ever bind them. Geez, I’m as cynical as the next guy, but surely there are people without an MBA whose word is good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=52)