# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1161 "2018-05-09T14:51:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > They removed the page. :dubious: > > Glad you at least grabbed the text. I’d send it to NYT and WaPo. See what they want to do with it. [Updated link.](https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2018/05/281959.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1162 "2018-05-09T14:57:06Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Congrats to my American friends for letting the deal pass! > > Maybe I’m being too optimistic here, but I have a feeling that even with a Republican in the White House come Jan. 2017, the deal will stand. What say you folks? You were being too optimistic here. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1163 "2018-05-09T15:13:26Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > [Updated link.](https://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2018/05/281959.htm) Ah. Thx. I imagine good investigative reporters track this kind of thing. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1164 "2018-05-09T15:16:00Z")
So we’ve pulled out of a deal with Iran — a relatively open developed country that’s important to regional stability and trade — but are about to make a deal with North Korea, a secretive hellhole with only 1/9 Iran’s per capita GDP. Is this a joke? Does anyone doubt for one minute that, if Obama had made a deal with North Korea but not Iran, that Trump would be renouncing Obama’s N.K. deal and embracing Iran? He’s babbled on and on about the many barrels full of U.S. banknotes that Obama “gave” to Iran. Does he expect to get those barrels back? Does he think The Trump Organization should get a cut if he does? Trump has threatened sanctions against Airbus if they fulfill their contracts with Iran. Is Europe giving any thought to sanctions against Boeing? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1165 "2018-05-09T15:59:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > So we’ve pulled out of a deal with Iran — a relatively open developed country that’s important to regional stability and trade — but are about to make a deal with North Korea, a secretive hellhole with only 1/9 Iran’s per capita GDP. Is this a joke? > > Does anyone doubt for one minute that, if Obama had made a deal with North Korea but not Iran, that Trump would be renouncing Obama’s N.K. deal and embracing Iran? He’s babbled on and on about the many barrels full of U.S. banknotes that Obama “gave” to Iran. Does he expect to get those barrels back? Does he think The Trump Organization should get a cut if he does? > > Trump has threatened sanctions against Airbus if they fulfill their contracts with Iran. Is Europe giving any thought to sanctions against Boeing? One legacy of the Trump administration that seems increasingly likely, if not inevitable at this point, is that the United States will be a much more politically isolated country. And we’ll probably be more economically isolated as a result as well. Not only do I struggle to see how we benefit from this outcome, but I struggle to see how we don’t lose something in the process. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1166 "2018-05-09T16:14:28Z")
Here in Baja Canada, farmers have to decide whether or not to plant soybeans. And they have to decide soon. \*Tempus Fuckit. \* A lot of that depends on the weather. Like, whether or not Trump starts a stupid and pointless trade war with China. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1167 "2018-05-09T16:20:22Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Trump has threatened sanctions against Airbus if they fulfill their contracts with Iran. Is Europe giving any thought to sanctions against Boeing? Boeing was in negotiations with Iranian airline to sell them planes. Was. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1168 "2018-05-09T16:23:16Z")
Those who think “the best deal” over “what’s best for the planet as a whole” are not global thinkers. They are nationalists, and nationalism is not the philosophy that will allow us to survive into the 22nd century. Virtually all of our allies exhorted Trump not to destroy this agreement, but he of course did. After all, Obama signed onto that, and they are dedicated to destroying out of pure hatred every single thing he ever did. Trump and his cohorts want a war with Iran in a big way. War is fantastic for rich people; arms dealers, big oil, etc. Get ready for $3 plus at the pump in very short order. Oh, this also explains why is trying to “make nice” with Kim. He knows he can’t fight a war with North Korea and Iran at the same time. First things first. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1169 "2018-05-09T16:23:18Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > The increase in oil prices is a huge benefit to Russia - they have been hurt by the drop in oil prices since 2014. I noticed gas prices jumped up $0.35 over night. Is this because of the pullout of the Iran deal? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Uggh. Stupid, stupid, stupid… we gain nothing, Iran gains status, and we’re forced to decide between sanctioning allies or looking even weaker and dumber. > [@asahi](#): > > One legacy of the Trump administration that seems increasingly likely, if not inevitable at this point, is that the United States will be a much more politically isolated country. And we’ll probably be more economically isolated as a result as well. Not only do I struggle to see how we benefit from this outcome, but I struggle to see how we don’t lose something in the process. The two of you seem to think that being isolated is a bug, not a feature. No, it doesn’t make sense economically, or militarily, or from a world stability standpoint, not even from an american stability standpoint. It does make sense if you want to “take america back” to the social and national identities that people think that we had in the 50’s > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You were being too optimistic here. 2 years before the election, there was quite a bit of optimism. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There won’t be any point in badmouthing it by then. Though God help us if there’s a Republican president for many other reasons. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it will stand. Things look different when you’re actually in Oval Office as opposed to scrambling around and fighting to get there. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1170 "2018-05-09T16:44:44Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Boeing was in negotiations with Iranian airline to sell them planes. Was. Golly, Trump is a regular business genius, “believe me”. MAGA! > **[Boeing, Airbus to lose $39 billion in contracts because of Trump sanctions on...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/boeing-airbus-to-lose-39-billion-in-contracts-because-of-trump-sanctions-on-iran/2018/05/08/820a8f08-5308-11e8-a551-5b648abe29ef_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.60664f75f5f2)** > > The aircraft sales were among the most-sought-after contracts for Iran. “…Boeing and Airbus will lose contracts worth roughly $39 billion to replenish Iran’s aging fleet of commercial planes as part of the Trump administration’s reimposition of sanctions. “The Boeing and Airbus licenses will be revoked,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told a group of reporters Tuesday. “The existing licenses will be revoked.”…” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1171 "2018-05-09T16:49:25Z")
That last WaPo article is behind a paywall…I see how Boeing would lose out, but why Airbus? Usually Boeing’s loss is Airbus’ gain and the Europeans should be swooping in on Iran right now. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1172 "2018-05-09T16:51:48Z")
Here’s one that I don’t believe is paywalled: > **[Boeing and Airbus will miss out on a combined $39 billion payday because of...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-iran-deal-boeing-airbus-contracts-sanctions-2018-5)** > > Boeing and Airbus will have $39 billion worth of Iranian contracts "revoked" after President Donald Trump's decision to leave the Iran nuclear deal and reimpose sanctions. “… Airbus will bear the most immediate hit since the company already began delivering aircraft to Iran. The manufacturer signed a $19 billion deal with Iran Air for 100 planes in late 2016. While Airbus is a Europe-based firm, the company is still subject to the Iranian sanctions, since more than 10% of their parts are made in the US. The company was cautious in a statement on Wednesday.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1173 "2018-05-09T17:02:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The two of you seem to think that being isolated is a bug, not a feature. No, it doesn’t make sense economically, or militarily, or from a world stability standpoint, not even from an american stability standpoint. **It does make sense if you want to “take america back” to the social and national identities that people think that we had in the 50’s** I don’t disagree with this at all. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1174 "2018-05-09T18:53:12Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I doubt most legal scholars would agree with you here. Although foreign policy is not exclusively the president’s domain, the law of the land makes it clear that the president is the single most important figure in shaping and representing American foreign policy. The Constitution and the laws therefrom clearly allow the president to enter into executive agreements without requiring congressional approval in advance. There are mechanisms in place to ensure that the president’s power isn’t unlimited. For one thing, such agreements can later be rescinded by future presidents. In the interim, congress can also vote to block or simply pull funding from any such agreement, as Congress more or less did when Clinton entered into a non-proliferation framework with North Korea in the 1990s (which probably reflects poorly on congressional Republicans in hindsight). Reversing pulling _out_ of a deal? That’s slightly more complicated than an executive order. Like years of negotiation with no guarantee that such a deal will (or can) be struck again. > [@asahi](#): > > One legacy of the Trump administration that seems increasingly likely, if not inevitable at this point, is that the United States will be a much more politically isolated country. And we’ll probably be more economically isolated as a result as well. Not only do I struggle to see how we benefit from this outcome, but I struggle to see how we don’t lose something in the process. Exactly what I said _before_ his election. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1175 "2018-05-09T19:01:44Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Apparently the State Department had no idea what any of our allies thought about the deal or what they would do after we pulled out. Jesus Christ, what a shit show. > > One particular exchange: > Question: But, I mean, they tell us that they want to stay in the deal as is. And so again, it’s all - this is all sort of fairly surprising that you guys are doing something so dramatic that affects your closest allies in a dramatic way. They see this deal as essential to their national security and you have no Plan B, you have no idea whether they will stay in the deal, whether they will defend the deal, whether they will fight you on the deal, whether they are going to go off with Iran against you. > > State: I mean, I think we have some idea because the President and President Macron, when he was here for the state visit, talked in their press availability about - President Macron called it a four-pillar new deal. What he tweeted today seemed to me - I think there were four pillars in what he tweeted today - seemed to me, again, to echo his desire for a broad new four-pillar deal. > > Question: But one of the pillars was keeping the JCPOA, which he made certain to emphasize repeatedly. > > State: Right, but he tweeted today something that seemed to indicate to me a French willingness to work with us. > > Question: So you guys have a positive tweet out of it. That’s amazing. That’s Macron’s latest tweet on the topic : > [@Macron](#): > > France, Germany, and the UK regret the U.S. decision to leave the JCPOA. The nuclear non-proliferation regime is at stake. Doesn’t look terribly positive to me. ETA : I suppose the “positive” one was this older one : > [@Macron](#): > > We will work collectively on a broader framework, covering nuclear activity, the post-2025 period, ballistic activity, and stability in the Middle-East, notably Syria, Yemen, and Iraq. Even though I’ve no clue what he means here. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1176 "2018-05-09T19:19:47Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Here’s one that I don’t believe is paywalled: > [Trump's Iran Deal Withdrawal Ends $39 Billion Boeing, Airbus Contracts - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-iran-deal-boeing-airbus-contracts-sanctions-2018-5) > > “… > Airbus will bear the most immediate hit since the company already began delivering aircraft to Iran. The manufacturer signed a $19 billion deal with Iran Air for 100 planes in late 2016. > While Airbus is a Europe-based firm, the company is still subject to the Iranian sanctions, since more than 10% of their parts are made in the US. The company was cautious in a statement on Wednesday.” Ah OK, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1177 "2018-05-10T01:52:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > That last WaPo article is behind a paywall…I see how Boeing would lose out, but why Airbus? Usually Boeing’s loss is Airbus’ gain and the Europeans should be swooping in on Iran right now. If Europe doesn’t kowtow to Trump’s demands, Trump can make it illegal to sell U.S. parts to Airbus; he can make it illegal for Airbus planes to land in the U.S.A. The rest of the world is heavily dependent on the U.S. But the U.S. isn’t self-sufficient either. It imports half a trillion dollars worth of goods (including iPhones) annually from China, and almost as much from Europe. _I think the U.S. imports more airplane parts from Europe than vice versa._ And the U.S. needs to export goods to pay for its imports: With the Orange Monstrosity threatening to default on U.S. Treasury debt, the U.S. may not be able to sustain itself just printing paper Trump may renounce. If Trump follows through on his threat to cripple Iran and/or cripple Airbus will the civilized world take this lying down? Will the Orange Monstrosity win the “game of chicken” or will civilization fight back? We live in interesting times. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1178 "2018-05-10T02:15:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > One legacy of the Trump administration that seems increasingly likely, if not inevitable at this point, is that the United States will be a much more politically isolated country. And we’ll probably be more economically isolated as a result as well. Not only do I struggle to see how we benefit from this outcome, but I struggle to see how we don’t lose something in the process. “We” get the same thing “Korea” has been getting for a while. An insular country, a scared and isolated populace, and the fear of our betters. It’s like Jim Crow days! ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1179 "2018-05-10T08:05:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not only do we appear to be the dishonorable party “Appear to be”? You _are_ the dishonorable party. You have proven Iran’s so-called “hardliners” right: The Americans are not to be trusted. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You were being too optimistic here. Aye, that I was. Still am, perhaps, since I still cling to the idea that the deal will hold, even without the Americans. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1180 "2018-05-10T13:43:21Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > “Appear to be”? You _are_ the dishonorable party. > > You have proven Iran’s so-called “hardliners” right: The Americans are not to be trusted. Not just iranian hardliners either. Pretty much the entire world now knows that we do not honor our deals. > [@](#): > > Aye, that I was. Still am, perhaps, since I still cling to the idea that the deal will hold, even without the Americans. If other countries stay in the deal, then that could pressure Iran to stay in the deal. If we force all other countries out of the deal, then Iran has no reason to hold up its end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=60)