# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1181 "2018-05-10T17:24:15Z")
For my clarity, other than political considerations, there’s never been anything even close to official, either domestically or internationally, keeping previous presidents from doing something like this, right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1182 "2018-05-10T17:45:11Z")
This certainly puts the kibosh on all that derp-state propaganda about helping Russia! Because Russia doesn’t sell oil! Well, OK, a little. A few barrels. Few million barrels. Nothing to see here, quit looking! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1183 "2018-05-10T18:34:27Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > For my clarity, other than political considerations, there’s never been anything even close to official, either domestically or internationally, keeping previous presidents from doing something like this, right? Backing out of a deal like this? Not really. This deal was made only by the executive, was not passed by the senate, and in fact, barely squeaked by having congress not allow the deal at all. If it were more properly done, then it would have been ratified by the senate, in which case, the executive no longer has the ability to back out. Unfortunately, at the time (and still) the senate was non-functional, so was unable to do anything of the sort. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1184 "2018-05-10T18:51:52Z")
Republicans, 2018: “It is proper procedure to have an international agreement voted on by the full Senate!” Republicans, 2016: “You can’t make us vote on Merrick Garland.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1185 "2018-05-10T19:15:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Republicans, 2018: “It is proper procedure to have an international agreement voted on by the full Senate!” > > Republicans, 2016: “You can’t make us vote on Merrick Garland.” I think you’ve fundamentally misunderstood the thrust of the argument. It’s not that “it is proper procedure”, it’s that it would have made the agreement more durable. Similar to how a president’s recess appointment are temporary, and they’re more lasting if they get the approval of the Senate. I haven’t seen anyone in this thread claim Obama didn’t have power to enter into an agreement with Iran, just that doing it as an executive-only agreement put it at the mercy of the whims of subsequent presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1186 "2018-05-10T19:19:20Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think you’ve fundamentally misunderstood the thrust of the argument. It’s not that “it is proper procedure”, it’s that it would have made the agreement more durable. Similar to how a president’s recess appointment are temporary, and they’re more lasting if they get the approval of the Senate. I haven’t seen anyone in this thread claim Obama didn’t have power to enter into an agreement with Iran, just that doing it as an executive-only agreement put it at the mercy of the whims of subsequent presidents. Right. So it’s Obama’s fault that Trump withdrew from the agreement. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1187 "2018-05-10T19:25:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Right. So it’s Obama’s fault that Trump withdrew from the agreement. Not even remotely close to what I said. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1188 "2018-05-10T19:27:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think you’ve fundamentally misunderstood the thrust of the argument. It’s not that “it is proper procedure”, it’s that it would have made the agreement more durable. Similar to how a president’s recess appointment are temporary, and they’re more lasting if they get the approval of the Senate. I haven’t seen anyone in this thread claim Obama didn’t have power to enter into an agreement with Iran, just that doing it as an executive-only agreement put it at the mercy of the whims of subsequent presidents. Technically, since the president has the direct command of our nuclear arsenal, not having a nuclear apocalypse is at the mercy of the whims of subsequent presidents. Doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1189 "2018-05-10T19:33:34Z")
More like it’s the fault of Tom Cotton and other US Senators. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1190 "2018-05-10T19:36:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Technically, since the president has the direct command of our nuclear arsenal, not having a nuclear apocalypse is at the mercy of the whims of subsequent presidents. > > Doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. Well, when we die in a nuclear apocalypse, it will be Obama’s fault for not ensuring there are laws limiting the President’s direct command of our nuclear arsenal. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1191 "2018-05-10T19:51:01Z")
> [@Netanyahu: we caught Iran red-handed!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/netanyahu-we-caught-iran-red-handed/813373/166): > > I’ve seen that too - “It’s Obama’s fault that Trump pulled out of the deal because it wasn’t a treaty!” > > :rolleyes: > [@Slash1972](#): > > Right. So it’s Obama’s fault that Trump withdrew from the agreement. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, when we die in a nuclear apocalypse, it will be Obama’s fault for not ensuring there are laws limiting the President’s direct command of our nuclear arsenal. You’re really stuck on this “Obama’s fault” thing. I don’t think anyone has said it but you. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1192 "2018-05-10T19:54:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Well, when we die in a nuclear apocalypse, it will be Obama’s fault for not ensuring there are laws limiting the President’s direct command of our nuclear arsenal. Just remember you owe me those beans. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You’re really stuck on this “Obama’s fault” thing. I don’t think anyone has said it but you. So, who’s fault is is that the Iran deal was not passed by the senate? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1193 "2018-05-10T19:58:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You’re really stuck on this “Obama’s fault” thing. I don’t think anyone has said it but you. Yeah, ok. [Trump makes it official: U.S. will withdraw from Iran deal, and it’s all Obama’s fault](https://www.salon.com/2018/05/08/trump-makes-it-official-u-s-will-withdraw-from-iran-deal-and-its-all-obamas-fault/) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1194 "2018-05-10T20:08:21Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, ok. > > [Trump makes it official: U.S. will withdraw from Iran deal, and it’s all Obama’s fault](https://www.salon.com/2018/05/08/trump-makes-it-official-u-s-will-withdraw-from-iran-deal-and-its-all-obamas-fault/) OK, you and Salon have said it :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1195 "2018-05-10T20:15:24Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You’re really stuck on this “Obama’s fault” thing. I don’t think anyone has said it but you. Well, Trump blames everything bad on Obama and Hillary. Everything good is his doing. I’m not sure why **manson1972** should be blamed for Trump’s childish assignment of credit/blame. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1196 "2018-05-10T20:15:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > OK, you and Salon have said it :rolleyes: Hardly. The right has criticized the Obama administration for entering this deal since the very beginning. Thus, it’s Obama’s fault (!) that this administration (and the US) had no choice but to pull out of this deal. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1197 "2018-05-11T03:04:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > OK, you and Salon have said it :rolleyes: Learn why many Dopers do not view you as completely ingenuous. Trump said “The fact is, this was a horrible one-sided deal that should have never ever been made … [it was a] great embarrassment to me as a citizen and to all citizens of the United States.” You deny that he was referring to Obama. Was he talking about James Monroe? Michael Avenatti? Elmer Fudd? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1198 "2018-05-11T08:12:01Z")
Khamenei has expressed distrust in Germany, the U.K. and France, as has [the lieutenant commander of the IRGC](http://ifpnews.com/exclusive/irgc-commander-pessimistic-e3-could-save-iran-nuclear-dal/). The idea is that, for all their protesting, these countries are likely to fold under American pressure. [This dude agrees.](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/will-europe-really-stand-up-to-donald-trump-on-iran) I guess we’ll see. As pointed out by others in this thread, Russia may profit indirectly, through raised oil prices. Meanwhile, China is apparently expected - at least in some quarters - to be the big winner here, stepping in to fill whatever vacuums may now appear. After all, [they have before](http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/iran-and-china): > [@](#): > > In early August 2010, Chinese Vice Premier Li Keqiang reassured Iranian Oil Minister Massoud Mirkazemi that China would maintain cooperation with Tehran on existing large-scale projects in the energy sector, even after the United States directly called on Beijing to observe sanctions. With more than 100 Chinese state-owned enterprises operating in Iran, Beijing expanded its presence in the Iranian market and invested heavily in Iran’s energy sector. Gaps left by Western and other Asian firms forced out by sanctions presented Chinese companies with strategic opportunities to enlarge their share of key sectors amid reduced competition. It won’t be entirely painless - more Chinese firms may well go the way of ZTE Corp, a telecom equipment maker which ran afoul of the American embargo on Iran, “received a seven year ban on US companies selling it components and software,” and is likely to face bankruptcy as a result. However, [this article](https://www.juancole.com/2018/05/dragon-trumps-scrapping.html) argues that the Chinese will probably forge on anyway, since… > [@](#): > > … China is in Iran for the long haul, with the Islamic Republic now physically linking itself to China via a new “Silk Railway”. Intended to carry goods and passengers between the two countries under China’s frequently renamed “One Belt, One Road” initiative, the 10,399 km long railroad linking the capital Iranian capital to Yiwu in China’s eastern Zhejiang province was built as Chinese-Iranian cooperation deepened during the sanctions period. Bilateral trade between the pair grew from $4 billion in 2003 to $53 billion in 2013 for example, as Chinese firms displaced European ones in the Obama era. Geography makes Iran a Eurasian trade hub and China sees it as both a vital link in its projected Asia-Europe trading route and as a component in Beijing’s plans for regional integration with Central Asia. Economics aside, the Iranians are said to currently be concentrating on [“winning the international blame game.”](https://twitter.com/AliVaez/status/994115818312093697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Firanprimer.usip.org%2Fblog%2F2018%2Fmay%2F09%2Fscrapping-deal-vii-experts-react) Not too much of a challenge, I imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1199 "2018-05-11T13:41:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > OK, you and Salon have said it :rolleyes: The cool thing about statements like “I don’t think anyone has said it but you” is that they are so easily disproved simply by one example. Perhaps you should stop making statements like that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1200 "2018-05-11T13:56:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The cool thing about statements like “I don’t think anyone has said it but you” is that they are so easily disproved simply by one example. Perhaps you should stop making statements like that. Yes, I thought it was obvious that I was talking in the context of Dopers in this thread, but next time I’ll be sure to state that explicitly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=61)