# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1301 "2018-05-18T08:18:31Z")
Denmark lost forty-three soldiers in Afghanistan, 2002-2013 - the greatest loss of life _per capita_ of any NATO country - and seven soldiers in Iraq, 2003-2007. Now Maersk, the country’s biggest company, [is being forced out of Iran due to the American sanctions](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-maersk/maersk-says-u-s-sanctions-make-doing-business-in-iran-impossible-idUSKCN1II0YR). Used to be that if you sent your children to fight and die for your liege lord, at least you got a shiny little something in return. These days, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1302 "2018-05-18T15:15:49Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Why on earth should we talk to people who routinely shout “Death to America”? Why should the Iranians negotiate with a country that calls them an “Axis of Evil”? (And that was the least of it, the Trump cabinet position on Iran is even worse, but I haven’t been following them closely enough to pick up their catchphrases). American politics for several decades has been full of exactly this kind of triumphalist rhetoric about our moral superiority to our opponents- “evil empire”, “axis of evil”, etc… Iranians aren’t any different. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1303 "2018-05-18T15:31:34Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Why should the Iranians negotiate with a country that calls them an “Axis of Evil”? (And that was the least of it, the Trump cabinet position on Iran is even worse, but I haven’t been following them closely enough to pick up their catchphrases). > > American politics for several decades has been full of exactly this kind of triumphalist rhetoric about our moral superiority to our opponents- “evil empire”, “axis of evil”, etc… Iranians aren’t any different. When was the last time you saw Americans rioting in the streets shouting “evil empire” or “axis of evil”? Oh, wait, you haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1304 "2018-05-18T15:32:44Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > When was the last time you saw Americans rioting in the streets shouting “evil empire” or “axis of evil”? Oh, wait, you haven’t. When was the last time you saw other countries drone bombing America with impunity? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1305 "2018-05-18T16:19:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > When was the last time you saw other countries drone bombing America with impunity? But… but… those other countries yell stuff that’s _mean!_ ---
**Author:** ![TemporalFix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c6cbf5/32.png) [@TemporalFix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TemporalFix)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1306 "2018-05-20T23:06:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > When was the last time you saw other countries drone bombing America with impunity? This impunity may not last. Drones getting cheaper and cheaper. Better brace ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![TemporalFix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c6cbf5/32.png) [@TemporalFix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TemporalFix)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1307 "2018-05-20T23:14:01Z")
But this thread was about Iran. Iran is not bombing USA or another western country. And Iran is not being bombed. Yes there are bombings between Israel and Iranian allies in Syria and/or Lebanon. But Israel is not a western country, I hope we westerners do not let ourselves sucked in to another war in the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1308 "2018-05-21T13:10:42Z")
> [@TemporalFix](#): > > Iran is not bombing USA or another western country. And Iran is not being bombed. Great! Then there is no reason not to negotiate with them. Unless you think global negotiations should not be undertaken if the country has people in it that say mean things about America? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1309 "2018-05-22T13:10:16Z")
At this point, the Iranian leadership would be foolish if they didn’t develop nuclear weaponry as soon as possible. The Europeans, Russia, and China can’t and won’t protect them from an American Republican administration, conservative Israelis and Saudis. The smartest thing peace-loving Americans can do is donate their extra dollars to the Iranian weapons program. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1310 "2018-05-22T14:18:42Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > At this point, the Iranian leadership would be foolish if they didn’t develop nuclear weaponry as soon as possible. The Europeans, Russia, and China can’t and won’t protect them from an American Republican administration, conservative Israelis and Saudis. > > The smartest thing peace-loving Americans can do is donate their extra dollars to the Iranian weapons program. Yeah, but if Iran gets nuclear weapons, they will immediately use them and then they themselves will become a sheet of glass in the desert. Makes perfect sense! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1311 "2018-05-22T17:20:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Great! Then there is no reason not to negotiate with them. Unless you think global negotiations should not be undertaken if the country has people in it that say mean things about America? Depends on which party is in the White House. That is the real factor in deciding whether entering negotiations is being a savvy dealmaker or negotiating with terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1312 "2018-05-22T18:42:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, but if Iran gets nuclear weapons, they will immediately use them There is absolutely no reason to believe this. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1313 "2018-05-22T19:11:51Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > There is absolutely no reason to believe this. Other than, of course, Iran constantly stating that it will obliterate Israel as soon as it has the capability? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1314 "2018-05-22T19:18:25Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > At this point, the Iranian leadership would be foolish if they didn’t develop nuclear weaponry as soon as possible. The Europeans, Russia, and China can’t and won’t protect them from an American Republican administration, conservative Israelis and Saudis. > > The smartest thing peace-loving Americans can do is donate their extra dollars to the Iranian weapons program. Or, you know, they could stop exporting terror and stop persecuting their own people. For good measure, they could also stop chanting death to America and promising to wipe Israel off the map. But no, that’s beyond the pale or something. So instead we should just hope that they develop niclear weapons so that they are perfectly safe to continue persecuting gay people, women, and apostates. Because that’s how you make a better world - by giving despicable tyrants weapons to protect their despicable tyranny. And of course, Saudi Arabia will need nukes, and therefore so will Syria and Egypt and… Ah, what a wonderful progressive world, where the middle east is full of nuclear weapons and the persecution of gay people and women can continue without the threat of someone stopping it. Nobel prizes for everyone! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1315 "2018-05-22T19:51:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Or, you know, they could stop exporting terror and stop persecuting their own people. For good measure, they could also stop chanting death to America and promising to wipe Israel off the map. > > But no, that’s beyond the pale or something. So instead we should just hope that they develop niclear weapons so that they are perfectly safe to continue persecuting gay people, women, and apostates. Because that’s how you make a better world - by giving despicable tyrants weapons to protect their despicable tyranny. And of course, Saudi Arabia will need nukes, and therefore so will Syria and Egypt and… > > Ah, what a wonderful progressive world, where the middle east is full of nuclear weapons and the persecution of gay people and women can continue without the threat of someone stopping it. Nobel prizes for everyone! If only there was an agreement in place with Iran that would have prevented them from gaining nuclear weapons… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1316 "2018-05-22T19:52:41Z")
Yeah, that would have been nice. But there wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1317 "2018-05-22T19:55:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Other than, of course, Iran constantly stating that it will obliterate Israel as soon as it has the capability? Iran poses no real threat to Israel, and both parties know it. Repeating myself from earlier in this thread, its military budget is on par with Norway’s and it has no air force to speak of. Israel, meanwhile, has the finest pound-for-pound army _and_ air force in the world, and dozens if not hundreds of nuclear weapons, not to mention the backing of the United States, far and away the mightiest country on the planet. In any all-out war between the two, be it nuclear or non-nuclear, Iran, not Israel, would be the one to face obliteration. Some might say they might do it anyway. They’re “irrational,” these people say, they’re “suicidal.” But the thing is - they’re not, at least not according to the experts in both Israel and the USA: > [@Steken](#): > > [In Israel](http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Is-Iran-a-lunatic-state-or-a-rational-actor-Neither-It-is-a-rational-aggressor-328625) as in [the US](http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/irans-leaders-are-not-suicidal-nuclear-deal/386507/), the smart money is on [Iran being a rational actor](http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/iran-rational-actor_633497.html). ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1318 "2018-05-22T19:58:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, that would have been nice. But there wasn’t. Please go on. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1319 "2018-05-22T20:06:33Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > There is absolutely no reason to believe this. I know that. Sarcasm is hard to show in written form. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If only there was an agreement in place with Iran that would have prevented them from gaining nuclear weapons… Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1320 "2018-05-22T20:13:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > For good measure, they could also stop chanting death to America and promising to wipe Israel off the map. Do you think that you can get americans to stop singing “Bomb, Bomb, Iran?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=67)