# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1321 "2018-05-22T21:14:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yeah, that would have been nice. But there wasn’t. According to Trump, sure. But according to actual nuclear experts, the deal in place was actually working, and likely to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons for at least a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1322 "2018-05-22T21:24:44Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I know that. Sarcasm is hard to show in written form. :smack: Indeed it is! Thought you were dead serious. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1323 "2018-05-22T21:30:33Z")
How can the Iranians complain about our sincerity when we bring John, of House Bolton, worst of his name…to the very forefront of a peace process! Its not like we have a history of beating up on other countries for no good reason. OK, that _one_ time! Three or four, tops! Whoever said peace is easy? War is easier? No, its just simpler, you don’t need to convince your enemy to trust you, you only have to kill him. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1324 "2018-05-24T02:13:05Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Or, you know, they could stop exporting terror and stop persecuting their own people. For good measure, they could also stop chanting death to America and promising to wipe Israel off the map. > > But no, that’s beyond the pale or something. So instead we should just hope that they develop niclear weapons so that they are perfectly safe to continue persecuting gay people, women, and apostates. Because that’s how you make a better world - by giving despicable tyrants weapons to protect their despicable tyranny. And of course, Saudi Arabia will need nukes, and therefore so will Syria and Egypt and… > > Ah, what a wonderful progressive world, where the middle east is full of nuclear weapons and the persecution of gay people and women can continue without the threat of someone stopping it. Nobel prizes for everyone! Iran will do the awful things it does regardless of the threat of invasion or sanctions. I want them to develop their nukes because my concern is the American conservative. We are one or two Republican administrations away from invading Iran. I don’t want to see another bullshit war started by the USA in my lifetime. I don’t want to see the average shmuck in Iran have his or her life upended because American conservatives have a rich imagination when it comes to starting a war. I don’t care if Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Iran all have nukes. We can negotiate with them. We can negotiate with Iran and North Korea for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1325 "2018-05-24T03:11:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Ah, what a wonderful progressive world, where the middle east is full of nuclear weapons and the persecution of gay people and women can continue without the threat of someone stopping it. Nobel prizes for everyone! Yes, because previous Republican administrations were doing _so much_ about the persecution of women and gays _before_ Iran was about to get The Bomb… ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1326 "2018-05-24T18:10:09Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > We are one or two Republican administrations away from invading Iran. If Bolton gets his way, I can see it happening as soon as in the run-up to the 2020 election. I don’t personally think it will happen, mind you, but the possibility’s there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1327 "2018-05-24T18:22:11Z")
Invade? No fucking way, can’t happen. Of course, if you ever wanted to totally negate any sensible political opposition in Iran, that’s the way to do it, to absolutely unify the Iranian people behind the fanatical _mullah_ leadership. The losses in civilian life would be…unthinkable, therefore unsayable. Guys who were in Viet Nam say that you had to assume that all the civilians around you were the enemy. You would know its not true, but you got no way to distinguish one from another. Iran invaded would be similar, except opposite: just about everybody you see would want you dead. So, its an incredibly stupid and hopeless recipe for death and disaster. On the other hand, John of House Bolton, worst of his name… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1328 "2018-05-24T19:48:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > According to Trump, sure. But according to actual nuclear experts, the deal in place was actually working, and likely to prevent Iran from gaining nuclear weapons for at least a decade. Was that before or after they discovered a warehouse of data that showed Iran had an extensive nuclear bomb program, when they claimed they never did? And what exactly did Iran agree to in that deal? They agreed to limit their centrifuges to 300, and they gave up some partially enriched Uranium. This had the effect of perhaps doubling the amount of time it would take to make a bomb. It doesn’t prevent them for making a bomb for ten years - it just prevents them from having more centrifuges for that period of time, and from enriching Uranium to bomb grade during that period. But crucially, the agreement didn’t even touch on all the other parts of a nuclear program. So the Iranians are still perfectly free to continue ICBM development, warhead miniaturization, etc. They were still going to need years to develop a delivery system for a bomb anyway, so it’s not clear that the deal slowed them down in any way. It may have actually speeded them up, as it gave them a lot of hard currency just as Iran was facing serious economic stress that might have required them to scale back missile and bomb development. What this deal was most likely about was pressure from special interests who wanted the sanctions dropped so they could sell their products to Iran. European politicians especially wanted those markets opened, as did large corporations in the U.S. like Boeing and GE. And because Obama had to avoid a ‘treaty’ so he could use his phone and pen to write a deal instead of following that pesky Constitution and allowing the people’s representatives to have a say, the deal had no teeth anyway and either party coild just walk away from it. That made it worse than useless in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1329 "2018-05-24T19:52:07Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Was that before or after they discovered a warehouse of data that showed Iran had an extensive nuclear bomb program, when they claimed they never did? > > And what exactly did Iran agree to in that deal? They agreed to limit their centrifuges to 300, and they gave up some partially enriched Uranium. This had the effect of perhaps doubling the amount of time it would take to make a bomb. It doesn’t prevent them for making a bomb for ten years - it just prevents them from having more centrifuges for that period of time, and from enriching Uranium to bomb grade during that period. > > But crucially, the agreement didn’t even touch on all the other parts of a nuclear program. So the Iranians are still perfectly free to continue ICBM development, warhead miniaturization, etc. They were still going to need years to develop a delivery system for a bomb anyway, so it’s not clear that the deal slowed them down in any way. It may have actually speeded them up, as it gave them a lot of hard currency just as Iran was facing serious economic stress that might have required them to scale back missile and bomb development. > > What this deal was most likely about was pressure from special interests who wanted the sanctions dropped so they could sell their products to Iran. European politicians especially wanted those markets opened, as did large corporations in the U.S. like Boeing and GE. > > And because Obama had to avoid a ‘treaty’ so he coild use his phone and pen to write a deal instead of following that pesky Constitution and allowing the people’s representatives to have a say, the deal had no teeth anyway and either party coild just walk away from it. That made it worse than useless in the first place. Yes, the Trump line has gotten traction with some conservatives, but pretty much all the actual experts strongly disagree. You’re not telling me anything new, you’re just repeating the Trump party line. I prefer to go with the experts over the Trumpists. Especially when ending the deal helped no one except for the Iranian hard liners who had argued that Americans can’t be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1330 "2018-05-24T20:01:39Z")
The funny thing is that that is the best shot against the deal - that while it did in fact greatly hinder Iran’s ability to enrich uranium (its main goal, in fact, which even the critics agree it was accomplishing), it didn’t restrict missile development (which it was never designed to do), and benefited Iran financially (deals tend to have a give and take). So their best argument, as best as I can figure, is that while we were getting what we wanted, we paid too much. So let’s stop the deal, even though we already paid. So now, thanks to Trump, Iran gets the financial benefit, plus they’re less restricted in enriching uranium, and America gets no benefit, plus angering most of our allies. Winning! ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1331 "2018-05-24T20:08:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The funny thing is that that is the best shot against the deal - that while it did in fact greatly hinder Iran’s ability to enrich uranium (its main goal, in fact, which even the critics agree it was accomplishing), it didn’t restrict missile development (which it was never designed to do), and benefited Iran financially (deals tend to have a give and take). > > So their best argument, as best as I can figure, is that while we were getting what we wanted, we paid too much. So let’s stop the deal, even though we already paid. So now, thanks to Trump, Iran gets the financial benefit, plus they’re less restricted in enriching uranium, and America gets no benefit, plus angering most of our allies. > > Winning! I hate the fact that Obama gave trillions of American taxpayer money to Iran! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1332 "2018-05-24T20:46:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What this deal was most likely about was pressure from special interests who wanted the sanctions dropped so they could sell their products to Iran. Apart from the signatories - Germany, France, the U.K., China, Russia and the USA - those shadowy pro-deal “special interests” also included all of NATO, Switzerland, Japan, South Korea, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Oman, Turkey, the Kurds and the Vatican, to name a few. Quite a cabal, that. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1333 "2018-05-26T19:53:49Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I hate the fact that Obama gave trillions of American taxpayer money to Iran! > > 😉 These days left-leaning media outlets are trying to mitigate the damage of Obama and Iran. A few quick facts. 1 ) This wasn’t a treaty! 2 ) This wasn’t even a deal as Iran refused to sign it. 3 ) The USA NOT was allowed inspections unless you consider an inspection with 20 days notices an inspection. Obama gave Iran a small mint of cash for NOTHING in return. They still hate us. They chant Death to America. They burn our flags. It seems Obama just " hoped " for the best, or at worst was very underhanded in giving a nation like Iran who has a budget for terrorism a lot of money. John Kerry, then the secretary of state put it best. We are now funding terrorism. Pay no attention to the fact that Obama’s closest advisor was some obscure woman born in Iran…one of the very few who ever travel to his living quarters. The same President gave Pakistan over a billion in aid, and we pretty much knew they were harboring Bin Laden. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1334 "2018-05-26T19:55:51Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > These days left-leaning media outlets are trying to mitigate the damage of Obama and Iran. > > A few quick facts. > > 1 ) This wasn’t a treaty! > > 2 ) This wasn’t even a deal as Iran refused to sign it. > > 3 ) The USA was allowed inspections unless you consider an inspect request with 20 days notices an inspection. > > Obama gave Iran a small mint of cash for NOTHING in return. They still hate us. They chant Death to America. They burn our flags. > > It seems Obama just " hoped " for the best, or at worst was very underhanded in giving a nation like Iran who has a budget for terrorism a lot of money. John Kerry, then the secretary of state put it best. We are now funding terrorism. > > Pay no attention to the fact that Obama’s closest advisor was some obscure woman born in Iran…one of the very few who ever travel to his living quarters. The same President gave Pakistan over a billion in aid, and we pretty much knew they were harboring Bin Laden. Pretty much all of what you said is factually incorrect and mostly just baseless conspiracy theory nonsense. The vast majority of experts, American and otherwise, in the field of nuclear proliferation, endorsed the JCPOA and characterized it as an effective means of preventing Iran from gaining nuclear weapons for at least the next 10-15 years. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1335 "2018-05-26T20:05:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Pretty much all of what you said is factually incorrect and mostly just baseless conspiracy theory nonsense. The vast majority of experts, American and otherwise, in the field of nuclear proliferation, endorsed the JCPOA and characterized it as an effective means of preventing Iran from gaining nuclear weapons for at least the next 10-15 years. B()LL &hit. It wasn’t a treaty. Iran did not sign any deal. Those are facts. How much did Obama really give them? Who knows. Way too much is the answer. For a fair deal, allow the USA to look anywhere they wish anytime they wish. That was barred. Military base viewing was also barred. Do you really trust Iran??? Iran is known to lie and you are dealing with religious leaders who speak of destruction. You can’t trust them. They took advantage of a welcome fool. Call it for what it was. Meanwhile, During Obama’s generosity Iran is working on increasing the range of their missiles, and spinning and an unknown number of centrifuges. ITs only a matter of time until they get nuclear weapons. This deal didn’t even make them pump the breaks, it only filled their pockets. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1336 "2018-05-26T20:09:27Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > B()LL &hit. > > It wasn’t a treaty. Iran did not sign any deal. Those are facts. > > How much did Obama really give them? Who knows. Way too much is the answer. > > For a fair deal, allow the USA to look anywhere they wish anytime they wish. That was barred. Military base viewing was also barred. Do you really trust Iran??? > > Iran is known to lie and you are dealing with religious leaders who speak of destruction. You can’t trust them. They took advantage of a welcome fool. Call it for what it was. > > Meanwhile, During Obama’s generosity Iran is working on increasing the range of their missiles, and spinning and an unknown number of centrifuges. ITs only a matter of time until they get nuclear weapons. This deal didn’t even make them pump the breaks, it only filled their pockets. Not really interested in debating cite-free conspiracy mongering nonsense any further. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1337 "2018-05-26T20:33:08Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > This wasn’t even a deal as Iran refused to sign it. **Wrong**. In October of 2015, the _majlis_ approved the deal “[with 161 votes in favour, 59 against and 13.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34513363)” > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The USA NOT was allowed inspections unless you consider an inspection with 20 days notices an inspection. **Wrong**. All declared nuclear facilities were under “[under continual monitoring](https://www.vox.com/2015/8/19/9176415/iran-deal-inspections-24-days).” Had IAEA had credible indications of any _undeclared_ nuclear facilities, they would under the terms of the deal have had the right to demand access to those, too. But instead, time and again, IAEA found that Iran was in fact in full compliance with the deal. > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Pay no attention to the fact that Obama’s closest advisor was some obscure woman born in Iran If you are referring to Mrs. Nowrouzzadeh, then, wow: _ **Superwrong** _. Firstly, she was in fact born in Trumbull, Connecticut. Secondly, she was in fact not “Obama’s closest advisor,” but rather an Iran specialist at the National Security Council. Thirdly, she was in fact not - and is not - “obscure.” She has an excellent record of public service, first during the Bush years and then under Obama, in both the Department of Defense and the National Security Council, with “[awards from the Departments of Defense and State, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the F.B.I.](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/21/trump-vs-the-deep-state)” Norman Roule, an Iran specialist at the CIA, has called her “one of the most patriotic people I know.” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1338 "2018-05-27T05:16:09Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > For a fair deal, allow the USA to look anywhere they wish anytime they wish. That was barred. …Are you serious? Do you think _any_ country would give up this degree of sovereignty? I mean, everything you’ve said here is wrong on the facts, but the idea that any country would willingly submit to this degree of invasiveness, _especially_ from someone seen as a geopolitical enemy, is crazy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1339 "2018-05-27T08:04:04Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > …How much did Obama really give them? Who knows. Way too much is the answer… This is very special. I will cherish this. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1340 "2018-05-28T19:58:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Not really interested in debating cite-free conspiracy mongering nonsense any further. An early checkmate, Iiandyiiiii ? Smart move, you’ll get your clock cleaned as all of the blow is true. It was not a treaty. It was not even a deal as Iran signed nothing. Obama freed up billions to Iran, offering a small mint worth of tax payer’s dollars for what? What a fool Obama was, he had to have known this deal could have been changed by any president at any time. At least if it was a treat or a signed deal, he’s have something to stand on. Bur Iran would not do that. So he took their word which history shows means nothing. John Kerry said it best, we are now funding terrorism and proxy wars with our own money. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=68)