# Nuclear deal with Iran **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 14, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128 "2015-07-14T11:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 68
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1341 "2018-05-28T20:00:50Z")
It was their money. Got a nickel says you already knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1342 "2018-05-28T20:03:37Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > **Wrong**. > > In October of 2015, the _majlis_ approved the deal “[with 161 votes in favour, 59 against and 13.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34513363)” > > \>\>\>BS. Iran did not sign it. Approving it via vote is one thing, for show. They did not sign the deal.Show us that proof, you will not find it. > **Wrong**. > > All declared nuclear facilities were under “[under continual monitoring](https://www.vox.com/2015/8/19/9176415/iran-deal-inspections-24-days).” Had IAEA had credible indications of any _undeclared_ nuclear facilities, they would under the terms of the deal have had the right to demand access to those, too. But instead, time and again, IAEA found that Iran was in fact in full compliance with the deal. > > \>\>\>Oh, an inspection 20+ days when requested? What is the point of inspections then? Also military areas were barred. > If you are referring to Mrs. Nowrouzzadeh, then, wow: _ **Superwrong** _. > > Firstly, she was in fact born in Trumbull, Connecticut. > > Secondly, she was in fact not “Obama’s closest advisor,” but rather an Iran specialist at the National Security Council. > > Thirdly, she was in fact not - and is not - “obscure.” > > She has an excellent record of public service, first during the Bush years and then under Obama, in both the Department of Defense and the National Security Council, with “[awards from the Departments of Defense and State, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the F.B.I.](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/21/trump-vs-the-deep-state)” Norman Roule, an Iran specialist at the CIA, has called her “one of the most patriotic people I know.” I was talking about Valerie Jarrett. Like I said born in Iran. The one allowed in his living quarters. Jarrett had a staff of approximately three dozen and received full-time secret service protection.[25] Jarrett’s role as both a friend of the Obamas and as senior advisor in the White House was controversial: in his memoirs Robert M. Gates, former secretary of defense, discussed his objection to her involvement in foreign security affairs;[26] David Axelrod reported in his memoirs about Rahm Emanuel’s attempts to have her selected as Obama’s replacement in the senate, due to concerns about the difficulty in working with a family friend in a major policy role.[27] Nice try. > **[Valerie Jarrett](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Jarrett)** > > Valerie June Jarrett (née Bowman; born November 14, 1956) is an American businesswoman and former government official serving as the chief executive officer of the Obama Foundation since 2021. She previously served as the senior advisor to U.S. President Barack Obama and assistant to the president for public engagement and intergovernmental affairs from 2009 to 2017. Before that, she served as a co-chair of the Obama–Biden Transition Project. > She has been the CEO of the Obama Foundation since ... ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1343 "2018-05-28T20:06:14Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > An early checkmate, Iiandyiiiii ? Smart move, you’ll get your clock cleaned as all of the blow is true. > > It was not a treaty. It was not even a deal as Iran signed nothing. Obama freed up billions to Iran, offering a small mint worth of tax payer’s dollars for what? > > What a fool Obama was, he had to have known this deal could have been changed by any president at any time. At least if it was a treat or a signed deal, he’s have something to stand on. Bur Iran would not do that. So he took their word which history shows means nothing. > > John Kerry said it best, we are now funding terrorism and proxy wars with our own money. Cool. This cite-free and mostly counterfactual collection of words that you typed is fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1344 "2018-05-28T20:11:29Z")
Also, John Kerry is opposed to the Iran deal? News to me. Probably news to him, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1345 "2018-05-28T20:14:39Z")
Did Iran even sign Obama’s deal? There seems to be some confusion on this topic ( Steven ). I can see the board tends to be left-leaning, but I’m cool with that. The open-minded can learn a thing or two, as the news outlets they frequent may be under-reporting the truth, and omitting specific facts. A Trip Down Memory Lane: In 2015 the Obama Administration Said the Iran Deal Wasn’t Even a ‘Signed Document’ > **[A Trip Down Memory Lane: In 2015 the Obama Administration Said the Iran Deal...](https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/iran-nuclear-deal-not-signed-document-not-binding/)** > > The Iran deal wasn’t binding then, and it’s not binding now. \http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2018/may/08/trump-withdrew-us-Iran-nuclear-deal-heres-what-you/ > [@](#): > > “President Obama didn’t require Iranian leaders to sign the nuclear deal.” In short, there was nothing truly binding about this deal. From its inception it existed only so long it was politically or strategically expedient for the relevant parties. The only thing truly concrete that came out of the JCPOA was the substantial financial benefit to the world’s most dangerous jihadist state" ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1346 "2018-05-28T20:21:29Z")
See, I google “John Kerry” and “Iran deal” I get a whole bunch of stuff about him working to save the deal. Stuff about Il Douche suggesting he is less than American for doing so. Things like that. Anyway, that’s where I got my information. Where did you get yours? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1347 "2018-05-29T04:54:42Z")
> [@](#): > > The only thing truly concrete that came out of the JCPOA was the substantial financial benefit to the world’s most dangerous jihadist state Wow, what a brazen, bold-faced _lie_. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1348 "2018-05-29T06:01:51Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > B()LL &hit. > > It wasn’t a treaty. Iran did not sign any deal. Those are facts. > > How much did Obama really give them? Who knows. Way too much is the answer. > > For a fair deal, allow the USA to look anywhere they wish anytime they wish. That was barred. Military base viewing was also barred. Do you really trust Iran??? > > Iran is known to lie and you are dealing with religious leaders who speak of destruction. You can’t trust them. They took advantage of a welcome fool. Call it for what it was. > > Meanwhile, During Obama’s generosity Iran is working on increasing the range of their missiles, and spinning and an unknown number of centrifuges. ITs only a matter of time until they get nuclear weapons. This deal didn’t even make them pump the breaks, it only filled their pockets. Someone who clearly supports the biggest fool of all time really should be careful throwing stones. There are panes everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1349 "2018-05-29T12:43:53Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > [COLOR=“DarkOrange”]I was talking about Valerie Jarrett. Like I said born in Iran. Did you vote for the foreign-born Presidential candidate in 2008? I bet you did. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1350 "2018-05-29T15:46:46Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Obama freed up billions to Iran, offering a small mint worth of tax payer’s dollars for what? Brilliant 🙂 LOL ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1351 "2018-05-30T09:12:59Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > The same President gave Pakistan over a billion in aid, and we pretty much knew they were harboring Bin Laden. Thanks for the history lesson — I don’t do a good job of keeping up. Perhaps you can help me on some other questions of recent history: [ul][li] Which President knew Bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan but took no measures to pursue him?[/li][li] Which President actually attacked Bin Laden’s little fortress and caused the death of that terrorist mastermind?[/li][/ul] Thanks in advance for your help with these questions. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1352 "2018-05-30T10:37:23Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > BS. Iran did not sign it. Approving it via vote is one thing, for show. They did not sign the deal.Show us that proof, you will not find it. This is truly bizarre. The agreement was made in Vienna, Austria, on July 14, 2015, and - as I pointed out in my previous post - was approved in the _majlis_ in October of that year, making it legally binding according to Iranian law. From that point on, the Iranians acted accordingly. And so the IAEA confirmed, time and again, that the Iranians adhered to the agreement. So… Are you… Is this… Is this like one of those “freeman of the land” things, with the golden fringe on the flag and all that? Where you latch on to some insignificant little detail which, according to you but certainly not according to any of the parties involved (Iran, China, Russia, the EU3, etc.), somehow magically invalidates the whole thing? To wit, “OK, OK, but can you _prove_ that Zarif actually brought a pen to a piece of paper and added his signature on a specific dotted line? if not, no deal!”? > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Oh, an inspection 20+ days when requested? What is the point of inspections then? Also military areas were barred. Did you even read what I wrote? On nuclear sites, _there was no 20+ day waiting period_. _ALL of Iran’s nuclear sites were “under continual monitoring.”_ Got that? > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > I was talking about Valerie Jarrett. Like I said born in Iran. The one allowed in his living quarters. Jarrett had a staff of approximately three dozen and received full-time secret service protection.[25] Jarrett’s role as both a friend of the Obamas and as senior advisor in the White House was controversial: in his memoirs Robert M. Gates, former secretary of defense, discussed his objection to her involvement in foreign security affairs;[26] David Axelrod reported in his memoirs about Rahm Emanuel’s attempts to have her selected as Obama’s replacement in the senate, due to concerns about the difficulty in working with a family friend in a major policy role.[27] Nice try. > > [Valerie Jarrett - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Jarrett) Oh OK. So what’s your problem with her again? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1353 "2018-05-30T10:54:08Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Also military areas were barred. **Wrong.** Military areas were not “barred.” Military areas _that could not reasonably be believed to be covert nuclear sites_ were not subject to inspection. See, there’s a reason the JCPOA is commonly referred to as a “nuclear deal.” It was about nuclear technology, not your average garden-variety military equipment. Military areas that _could_ reasonably be believed to be covert nuclear sites, however, were most certainly not “barred,” and could indeed be looked into. [From here](https://www.vox.com/2015/8/19/9176415/iran-deal-inspections-24-days): > [@](#): > > If [the IAEA] want to go someplace that is not a declared nuclear site, they can demand access. Here’s what happens if they do: > > Iran has to grant access within 24 hours, unless it objects to the validity of the demand. > > If Iran objects, it and inspectors enter negotiations. If they agree to disagree, the issue gets kicked to a special international commission that includes the US and the other countries that signed the nuclear deal. If it’s been 14 days and they’re still talking, it goes to the international commission (made up of US, UK, France, Germany, EU, China, Russia, and Iran). > > The international commission votes on whether to force Iran to comply. The US and its European allies have a majority on the commission, so if they agree they can overrule the other members. They can hold that vote right away, or they can wait up to seven days. > > If the commission votes to force Iran to comply, Iran has to let in the inspectors within three days. If it doesn’t, the international sanctions will “snap” back into force. > > What critics have done is look at this timeline and focus on the fact that in the most extreme possible scenario, the time between when inspectors demand access and when they get access could be as much as 24 days. Weirdly, this assumes that not just Iran but even the US and its allies will push delays as long as possible, but that is only one of the smaller problems with this idea. So: > [@](#): > > Here are a few problems with the idea that inspectors will have to wait 24 days to access undeclared sites in Iran: > > Iran deal critics are lying when they present this process as the default way in which every visit to an undeclared site will go. In fact, under an agreement that Iran has accepted called the Additional Protocol, inspectors are required access within 24 hours. This other, multi-day process is meant as a fail-safe in case that doesn’t work. > > Critics claim that because the process could, in theory, take up to 24 days, it means Iran can force inspectors to wait 24 days. This is false. Iran does not control every step of the process — the US and its allies could force a vote on the international commission right away, for example — so it is nonsense to argue that Iran could unilaterally delay inspection up to 24 full days. > > Even if Iran does push for as much delaying as possible, that would be like waving a big, neon-lit invitation over that particular site to Western spy agencies, which have a very good track record of spotting illicit Iranian nuclear activity. If Iran carted out material or bulldozed a test chamber or something, we would spot it, and the jig would be up. > > Nuclear radiation lasts a very long time. If Iran wants to enrich uranium, it will produce radioactive isotopes that cannot be scrubbed out. Yes, there are non-radioactive activities that Iran could conduct, but you need the radioactive stuff to build a bomb, and that is detectable long after 24 days. > > Iran deal critics pretend that during this process, the US and its allies would be powerless, essentially held hostage by Iranian intransigence. In fact, they have a variety of tools built into the deal by which they can pressure Iran to let in inspectors, and if necessary can blow up the deal by bringing back sanctions. Do you understand? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1354 "2018-05-30T11:14:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Thanks for the history lesson — I don’t do a good job of keeping up. > > Perhaps you can help me on some other questions of recent history: > [ul][li] Which President knew Bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan but took no measures to pursue him?[/li][li] Which President actually attacked Bin Laden’s little fortress and caused the death of that terrorist mastermind?[/li][/ul] > > Thanks in advance for your help with these questions. If I had the time, I’d be busy here. Both Presidents suspected Omaba fleed to Pakistan. Either would have taken him out, given the opportunity. Once he was found, ( The search to find him stated with Bush ), Obama had a no brainer. But at least you know which President gave a lot of our money, and freed up assets to Iran for nothing. Not a treaty or signed contract. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1355 "2018-05-30T12:21:25Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > But at least you know which President gave a lot of our money, and freed up assets to Iran for nothing. Not a treaty or signed contract. Your continued repeating of conspiracy theory nonsense in the face of cited, well reasoned rebuttals is truly impressive. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1356 "2018-05-30T12:33:29Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Either would have taken him out, given the opportunity. Once he was found, ( The search to find him stated with Bush ), Obama had a no brainer. You’ll need a cite for most of that. And do please tell us about this: [GWB isn’t concerned about finding Osama Bin Laden.](https://youtu.be/4PGmnz5Ow-o?t=81s) Is that Fake News? Did Soros hire an impostor to impersonate the Prez? Or, [perhaps you should study these comments and amend your remarks.](https://www.consortiumnews.com/2011/050711.html) GWB’s comments in the video, if it isn’t a Fake, are very amusing given that he’s also quoted as saying: > [@The same guy who](#): > > The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him. But thanks anyway, **Silver lining**. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1357 "2018-05-30T16:37:33Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Pay no attention to the fact that Obama’s closest advisor was some obscure woman born in Iran…one of the very few who ever travel to his living quarters. The same President gave Pakistan over a billion in aid, and we pretty much knew they were harboring Bin Laden. So the conclusion you’re implying is that Obama is responsible for protecting bin Laden? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1358 "2018-05-30T17:00:47Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > This is truly bizarre. > > The agreement was made in Vienna, Austria, on July 14, 2015, and - as I pointed out in my previous post - was approved in the _majlis_ in October of that year, making it legally binding according to Iranian law. From that point on, the Iranians acted accordingly. And so the IAEA confirmed, time and again, that the Iranians adhered to the agreement. > > So… Are you… Is this… Is this like one of those “freeman of the land” things, with the golden fringe on the flag and all that? Where you latch on to some insignificant little detail which, according to you but certainly not according to any of the parties involved (Iran, China, Russia, the EU3, etc.), somehow magically invalidates the whole thing? To wit, “OK, OK, but can you _prove_ that Zarif actually brought a pen to a piece of paper and added his signature on a specific dotted line? if not, no deal!”? > > Did you even read what I wrote? > > On nuclear sites, _there was no 20+ day waiting period_. > > _ALL of Iran’s nuclear sites were “under continual monitoring.”_ The funny thing is that you didn’t even mention the most bizarre part, which is that it was the US side of the deal that was not a legally binding treaty and it was the US side that proved that by pulling out. Knowing that, and then criticizing the deal as not being legally binding \*on Iran, \*that is _beyond_ bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1359 "2018-05-30T19:45:53Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > If I had the time, I’d be busy here. Both Presidents suspected Omaba fleed to Pakistan. … But at least you know which President gave a lot of our money, and freed up assets to Iran for nothing. Bush provided about $10 billion of American taxpayer funds to Pakistan, no questions asked. > **[gao-08-735r.pdf](https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-08-735r.pdf)** > > 1768.40 KB How much taxpayer money do you think went to Iran? Serious question. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128/1360 "2018-07-18T19:28:33Z")
In perhaps the most predictable Iran-news possible, they built a new centrifuge factory: > **[Iran builds new centrifuge rotor factory: nuclear chief](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-centrifuge/iran-builds-new-centrifuge-rotor-factory-nuclear-chief-idUSKBN1K80OP)** > > Iran has built a factory that can produce rotors for up to 60 centrifuges a day, the head of its atomic agency said on Wednesday, upping the stakes in a confrontation with Washington over the Islamic Republic's nuclear work. Well done, Mr. President, in giving Iran an easier and clearer path to nuclear weapons, while getting absolutely nothing in return! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=67) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-deal-with-iran/725128.md?page=69)