# Nuclear meltdown! Holy Godzilla NOOOO!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389 "2011-03-12T08:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/681 "2011-03-21T04:31:50Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Then it burns the concrete or rock below that. That is, in simple terms, the worst case scenario. Where on your cite it does say that? Or to backtrack a little, do you have a cite that there is no way for the concrete containment part of the reactor to deal with the meltdown? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/682 "2011-03-21T04:32:22Z")
I think everybody understands what ‘worst case’ means. In the current disaster, worst case actually means much much worse that a meltdown. I don’t even want to think about it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/683 "2011-03-21T04:39:08Z")
That is OK, it is really not nice to think where those unconfirmed alarmist bits like the images leaked of dead victims of the radiation came from, specially when pulled from one’s ass. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/684 "2011-03-21T04:39:26Z")
Since you refuse to read about Chernobyl, I dub thee troll. The [smoldering](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoldering) graphite, fuel and other material above, at more than 1200 °C,[[38]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#cite_note-lava2-39) started to burn through the reactor floor and mixed with molten [concrete](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete) that had lined the reactor, creating [corium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_%28nuclear_reactor%29), a radioactive semi-liquid material comparable to [lava](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lava).[[37]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#cite_note-Lava1-38)[[39]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#cite_note-lava3-40) If this mixture had melted through the floor into the pool of water, it would have created a massive [steam explosion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_explosion) that would have ejected more radioactive material from the reactor. It became an immediate priority to drain the pool.[[40]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#cite_note-41) The bubbler pool could be drained by opening its [sluice gates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sluice_gates). Volunteers in [diving suits](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_suit) entered the radioactive water and managed to open the gates. These were engineers Alexei Ananenko (who knew where the valves were) and Valeri Bezpalov, accompanied by a third man, Boris Baranov, who provided them with light from a lamp, though this lamp failed, leaving them to find the valves by feeling their way along a pipe. All of them returned to the surface and according to Ananenko, their colleagues jumped for joy when they heard they had managed to open the valves. Fire brigade pumps were then used to drain the basement. The operation was not completed until 8 May, after 20,000 metric tons of highly radioactive water were pumped out. With the bubbler pool gone, a [meltdown](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_meltdown) was less likely to produce a powerful steam explosion. To do so, the molten core would now have to reach the [water table](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_table) below the reactor. To reduce the likelihood of this, it was decided to freeze the earth beneath the reactor, which would also stabilize the foundations. Using [oil drilling equipment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_drilling), injection of [liquid nitrogen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_nitrogen) began on 4 May. It was estimated that 25 metric tons of liquid nitrogen per day would be required to keep the soil frozen at −100 °C.[[6]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#cite_note-MedvedevZ-6):59 This idea[_[clarification needed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_clarify)_] was soon scrapped and the bottom room where the cooling system would have been installed was filled with [concrete](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete). In short, the extreme worst case scenario is a meltdown, where the fuel is no longer moderated, and it reaches temperatures hot enough to melt steel and burn or melt concrete and rock. What happens after that depends on a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/685 "2011-03-21T04:40:33Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I think everybody understands what ‘worst case’ means. In the current disaster, worst case actually means much much worse that a meltdown. I don’t even want to think about it. You have yet to demonstrate that you have the slightest idea of “worst case scenario” means… ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/686 "2011-03-21T04:40:55Z")
This should make it clear why keeping everything covered with water, any water, is so critical. If you can’t cover fuel rods or fuel in the core with water, bad things happen. several really bad things already happened. I think we all would agree we really do not another bad thing to happen. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/687 "2011-03-21T04:45:37Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > This should make it clear why keeping everything covered with water, any water, is so critical. > > If you can’t cover fuel rods or fuel in the core with water, bad things happen. several really bad things already happened. I think we all would agree we really do not another bad thing to happen. And this post somehow proves that nuclear power is bad, how? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/688 "2011-03-21T04:47:54Z")
Wrong thread. This is about the current events at 6 reactors in Japan. The political nonsense is in the other thread. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/689 "2011-03-21T04:48:27Z")
FXMastermind you are such a demonstrated idiot, I already posted and quoted \*\*that \*_I did read about Chernobyl, and I already pointed out that in reality the disaster was not caused by the less important meltdown, it there had been just a meltdown and a proper containment vessel_ the radiation release would had been less. \*Proper containment vessel and concrete chambers that \*\*are \*\*present at the Japanese plant. But never mind, it is more fun to continue to be a fearmonger. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/690 "2011-03-21T04:51:05Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Wrong thread. This is about the current events at 6 reactors in Japan. The political nonsense is in the other thread. Who is this directed at? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/691 "2011-03-21T04:51:07Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Wrong thread. This is about the current events at 6 reactors in Japan. The political nonsense is in the other thread. Wrongo, this is the pit and you are now a certified troll, I’m only posting to inform others not only about that, but also to demonstrate what a bullshitter you are. Any source for your say so that there are images of victims? Or even your ass has run out of sources? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/692 "2011-03-21T04:55:13Z")
A flooded reactor containment would be a very bad thing if the fuel melts through the vessel. What’s so strange, is that nobody, even when they are supposed to be explaining the worst case scenario, ever actually does. Like here > **[Nuclear Experts Explain Worst-Case Scenario at Fukushima Power Plant](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fukushima-core/)** > > The type of accident occurring now in Japan derives from a loss of off-site AC power and then a subsequent failure of emergency power on-site. Engineers there are racing to restore AC power to prevent a core meltdown > [@](#): > > And just what is that worst-case scenario? "They’re venting in order to keep the containment vessel from failing. But if a core melts, it will slump to the bottom of the reactor vessel, probably melt through the reactor vessel onto the containment floor. It’s likely to spread as a molten pool—like lava—to the edge of the steel shell and melt through. That would result in a containment failure in a matter of less than a day. And that is the end of the story. Read it for yourself. That is an expert explaining the worst case scenario. I’m not interested in convincing anyone that this can happen, as in it is physically possible. If you don’t get that yet, there is no hope. No, it’s what happens next, that nobody will say, that’s the really bad part. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/693 "2011-03-21T04:57:46Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > A flooded reactor containment would be a very bad thing if the fuel melts through the vessel. > > What’s so strange, is that nobody, even when they are supposed to be explaining the worst case scenario, ever actually does. > > Like here > [Nuclear Experts Explain Worst-Case Scenario at Fukushima Power Plant | Scientific American](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=fukushima-core&page=2) > And that is the end of the story. Read it for yourself. That is an expert explaining the worst case scenario. > > I’m not interested in convincing anyone that this can happen, as in it is physically possible. If you don’t get that yet, there is no hope. > > No, it’s what happens next, that nobody will say, that’s the really bad part. Who \*are \*you talking to? Yourself? You’re just posting post after post of your anti-nuclear clap-trap. You are not responding to anyone or engaging in any meaningful conversation. You’re as bad as **Le Jackalope.** ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/694 "2011-03-21T04:58:29Z")
Now here is a grimmer explanation by a different expert. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42181303/ns/health-health\_care/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42181303/ns/health-health_care/) > [@](#): > > Unless the reactors and storage facilities at the plant are brought under control, a worst-case scenario means\*\* extremely hot, melting fuel rods coming in contact with water remaining in the cooling pool in the bottom of a reactor causing a steam explosion\*\*. The containment vessels that house the rods, probably already weakened by the gigantic earthquake, aftershocks and other prior smaller explosions, would not be unable to withstand the pressure from a large explosion. If that happened, a large amount of radioactive material would be released into the atmosphere. > > Most of the radiation would stay local. **A complete meltdown of just one reactor would mean serious contamination of the surrounding area for at least one hundred miles making it uninhabitable for decades**. And, depending on weather conditions, radiation could drift toward other parts of Japan or beyond, contaminating crops, sealife and people. But of course he stops short of describing what could actually happen, especially if there is a steam explosion. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/695 "2011-03-21T05:00:23Z")
When nobody will bother to post any scientific or even published material, just keep making things up, one might have to resort to taking both sides in a discussion. None of the worst case scenarios I can find come anywhere close to what ‘could’ happen. And I agree, it’s best not to think about that, or describe it. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/696 "2011-03-21T05:02:40Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > When nobody will bother to post any scientific or even published material,\*\* just keep making things up,\*\* one might have to resort to taking both sides in a discussion. > > None of the worst case scenarios I can find come anywhere close to what ‘could’ happen. And I agree, it’s best not to think about that, or describe it. You and your ilk are the ones making things up. We have yet to have a cite or any evidence of the dead bodies from radiation poisoning that you lied about, and the core radiation that was released that **gonzo** lied about. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/697 "2011-03-21T05:04:11Z")
TravisFromOR, his previous post from scientific American was the worst that could happen… from March 12. And the other report is an opinion piece from a doctor, not an expert on the issue, his focus is to have better ways to help heroes like the plant workers after this crisis passes. As things have improved, I will go for more confidence than fear mongering. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/698 "2011-03-21T05:08:29Z")
Chernobyl is a “worse case scenario”. For nuclear plants it does not get worse. The China Syndrome is a movie. Melting through the floor of the reactor and down to…somewhere…can’t happen. CANNOT HAPPEN Three Mile Island saw half its core melt in four hours. It never breached the reactor much less the containment vessel. Chernobyl had NO containment vessel. Chernobyl also had a supremely bad design that these reactors do not have. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/699 "2011-03-21T05:11:29Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > This should make it clear why keeping everything covered with water, any water, is so critical. > > If you can’t cover fuel rods or fuel in the core with water, bad things happen. several really bad things already happened. I think we all would agree we really do not another bad thing to happen. Nothing bad happened, nor can anything worse than the nothing that happened already occur. The animals in the 12 mile zone that had to move haven’t said anything to you, have they? If they aren’t bothered, why should you be? Uranium reactions, bringing electrical power to a community to you soon. And your milk is now fortified with Strontium 90! Our children will not have super powers without the spider bites of irradiated spiders and such. Is that what you want? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/700 "2011-03-21T05:15:14Z")
Returning to some actual facts in the matter: > [@](#): > > So we don’t know exactly how they’re getting water to the core or if they’re getting enough water to the core. We believe, because of the release of cesium, that the core has been exposed above the water level, at least for a portion of time, and has overheated. > > What we really need to know is how long can they keep that water flowing. And it needs to be days to keep the core from melting. > > "The containment, I believe, is still intact. **But if the core does melt, that insult will probably not be sustained and the containment vessel will fai** l. > **[Nuclear Experts Explain Worst-Case Scenario at Fukushima Power Plant](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fukushima-core/)** > > The type of accident occurring now in Japan derives from a loss of off-site AC power and then a subsequent failure of emergency power on-site. Engineers there are racing to restore AC power to prevent a core meltdown Nobody who understand nuclear reactors disputes this. It’s exactly why the situation is so critical. You do not want melted fuel and exposed fuel rods. It’s very serious. > [@](#): > > The worst case for those who face the horror of a melting core is Chernobyl. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42181303/ns/health-health\_care/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42181303/ns/health-health_care/) The problem in this case, is that unlike Chernobyl, there is a tremendous amount of spent fuel rods above the very area you really don’t want any explosions in. And that there are 6 reactors, and spent fuel for four of them in the intimidate area. And one reactor is a Plutonium based reactor. That’s the real bad news. If that one fails, or blows up (steam, not nuclear bomb type explosion), it is game over. But actually that is true for the other two as well. If just one reactor has a steam explosion, they all go. Along with all the spent fuel rods. So it really is a tense situation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=36)