# Nuclear meltdown! Holy Godzilla NOOOO!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389 "2011-03-12T08:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/721 "2011-03-21T17:02:20Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I wish people would stop with the illogical fallacies. > > I can be against something, because it’s dangerous, and also be against something else, because it is more dangerous. It’s not an either or situation. But if you can’t put two and two together and figure out if you can only choose one or the other and that the only sensible choice is the LESS dangerous one then your shits all retarded. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/722 "2011-03-21T17:07:53Z")
Let’s hope the worst of it is passed. They are not out of the woods yet as some things are still going wrong. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42188697/ns/world\_news-asiapacific/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42188697/ns/world_news-asiapacific/) [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42188550/ns/world\_news-asiapacific/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42188550/ns/world_news-asiapacific/) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/723 "2011-03-21T17:09:21Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > But if you can’t put two and two together and figure out if you can only choose one or the other and that the only sensible choice is the LESS dangerous one then your shits all retarded. Coal may cost more lives, but if I had to choose one to live near, it would be coal. Fortunately I live near the Rio Vista and Altamont wind farms. Rio Vista is new and Altamont is getting upgraded. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/724 "2011-03-21T17:12:32Z")
Can’t I chose neither? And go with clean green energy? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/725 "2011-03-21T17:18:38Z")
Oh sure we might have to cut back on use. But that saves money as well. Why does it have to be a war over power? I’m asking both sides here. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/726 "2011-03-21T17:25:36Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Can’t I chose neither? And go with clean green energy? Damn your a dipshit. The point has been made OVER and FUCKING OVER that green may well not be enough. If that is the case you gotta make a damn choice. You can wish all you want that green will be enough but that doesnt make it so. Normally, I don’t call ignorant people names, but in this thread its quite obvious that you and a few other folks here have NO interest in actually learning anything or having reasoned debate. You just ignore any facts or explainations given to you. You misrepresent what others say to the point of lying. You keep repeating the same retarded shit thats been shot down a hundred times over. Your. Shit. Is. All. Retarded. And shit. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/727 "2011-03-21T17:33:32Z")
Green may be plenty good enough. If we stressed it more and researched improvements more, It may prove to be the answer. But ,here are plenty of exciting green technologies being created . Green may not solve the problem today. That does not mean that it never will. Coal will always be filthy. Nuclear will always be a controlled nuclear explosion that heats water. [Renewable Energy Around the World: There's Still Hope for the U.S. | Seeking Alpha](http://seekingalpha.com/article/110618-renewable-energy-around-the-world-there-s-still-hope-for-the-u-s) Several countries are cutting into their energy needs with green energy. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/728 "2011-03-21T17:34:12Z")
Clean green energy (which also has its downsides) is one of the mosaic of solutions. And it isn’t “might have to cut back on use” - if we want to maintain our standard of living in North America, we need abundant cheap energy. End of story. If China and India and African countries want to come up to our standard of living or close to it (and who the hell can blame them?), they need abundant cheap energy. The first thing we need to cut back on is population, but nobody is buying that hard sell, and there are problems with that, too. There are a lot of intertwined problems going on right now, and I suggest (with no malice) that you need to do a lot of reading and research, **FXMastermind**. It’s nowhere near as simple as stop driving cars and put up some solar panels. Are you going to stop having your groceries delivered to your local Safeway by truck, too? Are you going to stop having all the goods cheaply manufactured in China delivered by freighter and rail car? Are you going to feed a city of a million people with farms on the outskirts of that city, or from the gardens the citizens can grow in their back yards? How about money - how are you going to pay for stuff if you can’t get to work to earn money? We’ll all go by bus? Buses run on fossil fuels. Here’s a book for you - [Why Your World is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller by Jeff Rubin](http://www.randomhouse.ca/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780307357519&view=print). Here’s another one - [Limits to Growth: The 30 Year Update.](http://www.amazon.com/Limits-Growth-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/193149858X) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/729 "2011-03-21T17:46:37Z")
On a personal basis ,it is as easy as putting up solar panels and driving electric cars. You can go off the grid completely or cut down use dramatically. It is done at personal expense. Some governments give you tax breaks for doing it. It is a big [part of the answer. A bus that transports lots of people at once ,is far more efficient than everybody driving their own car. The idea is to cut use until we can start eliminating generating plants. that may take awhile, but it is a damn good goal . I walk to the stores by the way. I carry groceries back. I have had a garden for 30 years. I grow lots of vegetables and give lots of vegetables to neighbors. I even save them trips to the grocery store. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/730 "2011-03-21T17:51:31Z")
I’ve lived off the grid for over 5 years ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/731 "2011-03-21T17:54:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Damn your a dipshit. > > The point has been made OVER and FUCKING OVER that green may well not be enough. If that is the case you gotta make a damn choice. First of all, it is “you’re” or “you are”. Second, it has not been proven in this thread that green will never be enough. As somebody pointed out, it would only take the size of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations covered with photovoltaic cells to generate enough electricity. To someone back east that might seem like a lot of land area. It isn’t. There are plenty of deserts out west that could have photovoltaic or mirror type sun plants that far exceed RH&PP in area, with plenty of gaps for plants and critters. We could put big wind turbines up all over the country and have the added benefits of figuring out how to shut them down to change weather patterns all over the northern hemisphere to our advantage as in no droughts and controlled storms. (Or warfare, I suppose). We do not need coal or nuclear. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/732 "2011-03-21T18:03:35Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I’ve lived off the grid for over 5 years Oh really. The odds are that what you define as offgrid is still reliant on a massive amount of backend infrastructure and energy generation. Sure, you’re offgrid. And you make your own clothes, create your own soap, grow your own food, synthesise your own medicines, use your own fertiliser…nah, that’s not too likely. Well, maybe the fertiliser. The per capita energy consumption in America in 2007 was equivalent to 7,750 kg of fuel oil. [http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.USE.PCAP.KG.OE?cid=GPD\_26](http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.USE.PCAP.KG.OE?cid=GPD_26) You can’t replace that by putting up a few solar panels, and cutting back on your mileage. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/733 "2011-03-21T18:06:02Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I’ve lived off the grid for over 5 years You’re a proven liar. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/734 "2011-03-21T18:10:01Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Second, it has not been proven in this thread that green will never be enough. As somebody pointed out, it would only take the size of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations covered with photovoltaic cells to generate enough electricity. To someone back east that might seem like a lot of land area. It isn’t. There are plenty of deserts out west that could have photovoltaic or mirror type sun plants that far exceed RH&PP in area, with plenty of gaps for plants and critters. We could put big wind turbines up all over the country and have the added benefits of figuring out how to shut them down to change weather patterns all over the northern hemisphere to our advantage as in no droughts and controlled storms. (Or warfare, I suppose). your numbers don’t add up > **[Heavyweight physics prof weighs into climate/energy scrap](https://www.theregister.com/2008/06/20/mackay_on_carbon_free_uk/)** > > Zero-carbon UK plans for all: Greens, nimbys, even Libs ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/735 "2011-03-21T18:23:13Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Second, it has not been proven in this thread that green will never be enough. As somebody pointed out, it would only take the size of the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations covered with photovoltaic cells to generate enough electricity. To someone back east that might seem like a lot of land area. It isn’t. There are plenty of deserts out west that could have photovoltaic or mirror type sun plants that far exceed RH&PP in area, with plenty of gaps for plants and critters. What are you planning to do about all the toxic waste that will generate? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/736 "2011-03-21T18:28:54Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > What are you planning to do about all the toxic waste that will generate? Put it in frozen dinners and send it to China. I presume you are talking about mining and factories, not “wind spills” and “sunlight leakage”? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/737 "2011-03-21T18:36:38Z")
On the 15th traces of airborne radiation were detected at the Naval base in Yokosuka Right now they are sailing an aircraft carrier out of that port to avoid the radiation. And everything else as well. The problem with words, is actions speak louder. The ‘fear mongering’ media (CNN) is still reporting > [@](#): > > Nishiyama said there was no evident explosion, spike in radiation or injuries at the No. 3 reactor. The smoke was coming from the building’s southeastern side, where the reactor’s spent nuclear fuel pool is located, but the origin of the smoke at either reactor was unknown. > **[Smoke spews from 2 reactors at stricken Japanese nuclear plant](https://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/21/japan.nuclear.reactors/?hpt=T2)** > > What appeared to be smoke was rising Tuesday from two adjacent reactors in the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, a nuclear safety official said. that nobody knows either where the smoke is coming from, or if it has radiation in it, but the navy is handing out Iodine pills to all it’s people, hundreds of miles away. [http://www.stripes.com/news/u-s-bases-in-japan-begin-distributing-potassium-iodide-pills-1.138420](http://www.stripes.com/news/u-s-bases-in-japan-begin-distributing-potassium-iodide-pills-1.138420) But remember, stay calm. Don’t worry. Even when radiation levels are spiking at monitoring stations 150 miles away. The official word is, “Not enough to worry about”. Somebody forgot to tell the US Navy. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/738 "2011-03-21T18:38:26Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Put it in frozen dinners and send it to China. > > I presume you are talking about mining and factories, not “wind spills” and “sunlight leakage”? Mostly, the oil leakage from the wind mills isn’t terribly significant. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/739 "2011-03-21T19:01:46Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Mostly, the oil leakage from the wind mills isn’t terribly significant. Yeah, but the birds that are killed by them are. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/740 "2011-03-21T19:02:55Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Somebody forgot to tell the US Navy. And if the Navy wasn’t taking precautions, your mouth would be frothing about that. You are a complete and total idiot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=38)