# Nuclear meltdown! Holy Godzilla NOOOO!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389 "2011-03-12T08:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/801 "2011-03-23T00:24:44Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > They knew the risks. That’s more than can be said for the anti-nuke moonbats’ and their coal plants. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/802 "2011-03-23T00:37:20Z")
Oh ho! It’s conspiracy theory time! Continue. And please cite your sources. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/803 "2011-03-23T01:19:47Z")
[QUOTE=FXMastermind] Oh ho! It’s conspiracy theory time! Continue. And please cite your sources. [/QUOTE] From [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=600660) thread: [QUOTE=FXMastermind] Deaths? Nobody is even in the hospital. This proves how safe nuclear power actually is. [/QUOTE] Plenty more where that came from. The guy is absolutely a nutter, and has demonstrated a marked predisposition to being a total moonbat. He’s become increasingly frantic lately as his wild ass assertions of gloom and doom haven’t come to pass, and in the expected trajectory is resorting now to a tone increasingly like that of any CTer. I suggest reading posts by the cited source with extreme caution, less the crazy jump ship and infect the reader… -XT ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/804 "2011-03-23T01:29:04Z")
You know, I really don’t know what the rules are here, but i took the opening post as the tone of this thread. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Who the hell could have predicted that a nuclear power plant, the most safe form of energy in the history of humanity with the exceptions of Chernobyl, Hanford, Windscale, etc. might melt down? It’s impossible in a modern reactor. … Sarcasm, dark humor, obvious wild claims and some mockery thrown in. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Who could have predicted a 8.9 or 9.0 or 9.1 earthquake near Japan? Fucking nobody, that’s who. Japan is seismically inactive! Everybody knows that! … This probably spilled over into the other threads, which for all I know have a different set of rules. Which I also don’t know what they are. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Hey! I can see my hand glow in the dark! I have super powers!!! That nobody demanded a cite, I figured this was an adult crowd. Was I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/805 "2011-03-23T01:56:58Z")
[QUOTE=FXMastermind] This probably spilled over into the other threads, which for all I know have a different set of rules. Which I also don’t know what they are. [/QUOTE] There are several sticky threads at the top of the forum…you should read through them before posting anything else in the forum. There are even some sticky threads at the top of this forum that go over some of the rules, such as they are, for the Pit. Obviously the rules are different. > [@](#): > > That nobody demanded a cite, I figured this was an adult crowd. Was I wrong? I think everyone recognized the fact that TSS was just being sarcastic there. In general, no one asks for cites (with any reasonable expectation they will actually get one) in The Pit. You are expected to back up your bullshit in GD though…which you have singularly failed to do. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/806 "2011-03-23T02:10:09Z")
Oh and BTW Gonzomax you should be tested for mercury poisoning, I think your coal plants may be getting the best of you. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/807 "2011-03-23T02:11:51Z")
So this is the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/808 "2011-03-23T02:27:20Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > So this is the pit? Yes. This is the pit. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/809 "2011-03-23T02:32:42Z")
I apologize for my responses in the non pit threads. They all looked like a pit to me. I’m a stupid n00b ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/810 "2011-03-23T02:52:03Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Reagan and Nixon were Californians. They weren’t no stinky hippies! They’d be considered hippies by any modern Republican. And according to Elvis, Nixon had very bad BO. Just look how far he stood from him in this[picture](http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6QK_rRUT8o6RKR-gUZhrR9cZz645X6AKhmTt_xPuZerkUdms-Ug&t=1). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/811 "2011-03-23T03:59:05Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > You know, I really don’t know what the rules are here, but i took the opening post as the tone of this thread. Sarcasm, dark humor, obvious wild claims and some mockery thrown in. This probably spilled over into the other threads, which for all I know have a different set of rules. Which I also don’t know what they are. That nobody demanded a cite, I figured this was an adult crowd. Was I wrong? I’m on virtually everybody’s ignore list, including most of the moderators’. My sarcasm and satire leaves their girly parts withered and wrinkled. They know better. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/812 "2011-03-23T04:00:07Z")
You I like. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/813 "2011-03-23T04:36:44Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > If they don’t keep over immediately it is not a problem. 30 years from now if half of them are dead from cancer no one individual will be able to prove to the satisfaction of the pro-nuke people that the cause was the irradiation. They will dismiss it as a statistical anomaly. Here’s an example of how various organizations obfuscate nuclear deaths: [http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1103ap\_eu\_ukraine\_chernobyls\_lessons.html](http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1103ap_eu_ukraine_chernobyls_lessons.html) Interesting conclusion. I could just as easily say, “Here’s an example of how anti-nuclear organizations attempt to over-state nuclear deaths.” The ‘obfuscations’ you talk about are actually simply uncertainties. The situation was unique, the exposure patterns unique, and early guesses/estimates of the number of deaths that would result have been wrong. But let’s not forget that Chernobyl is not like the Japanese reactors - Chernobyl was built _without a containment dome_. Thus, when it went critical and exploded, large amounts of radiation were blown into the atmosphere. The open glowing reactor core could be seen by overflying aircraft. The containment domes around the reactors in Japan all held. This, despite a 1-in-1200 year earthquake event followed by a tsunami. So far, the radiation that has been released has not reached dangerous levels for anyone other than the workers on the plant compounds. It sure is a mess, but then earthquakes and tsunamis do that. Over 10,000 people were killed by various other causes, and none so far killed by radiation. More bad stuff could still happen, but so far I’d have to say the Japanese are lucky they had nuclear reactors instead of a large hydro dam - if such an earthquake struck the Sayano–Shushenskaya Dam in Russia, it would fail since it was only designed to withstand an 8.0 earthquake. And if it failed, it would kill over 200,000 people. Of course, you don’t even need an earthquake - that same dam had a malfunction last year that caused a massive explosion, killing 75 workers. And if not for the heroic efforts of other workers, that dam could well have failed. In 1975, a typhoon caused 62 dams to fail in China, killing somewhere between 90,000 and 230,000 people. Sources of concentrated energy are dangerous. Nuclear power so far has the best overall safety record of any of them, and will remain so even after the Japan disaster has run its course. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/814 "2011-03-23T04:47:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > …Sources of concentrated energy are dangerous… Exactly. That is why solar, wind and tidal, etc. are so much safer. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/815 "2011-03-23T06:37:33Z")
It’s also why they are so expensive and so impractical as a primary power source. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/816 "2011-03-23T07:15:10Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Exactly. That is why solar, wind and tidal, etc. are so much safer. And if only they were anything like capable of meeting even vastly stripped back world energy needs, you’d have a point. But they’re not. Go read the link I posted earlier (european study rather than US, but consider we use half as much energy per person as you guys do the numbers are actually more in your favour) > **[David MacKay FRS: : Contents](http://www.withouthotair.com/)** It gives a very nice, thorough explanation of just why glibly claiming renewable green energy is a solution is about as useful as claiming we’ll run giant hamster wheel turbines powered by unicorns. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/817 "2011-03-23T07:20:44Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > It gives a very nice, thorough explanation of just why glibly claiming renewable green energy is a solution is about as useful as claiming we’ll run giant hamster wheel turbines powered by unicorns. Hamster powered turbines are just a pipedream. What we should do is put prisoners on treadmills. Have them produce the electricity for our dangerously unlit nation. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/818 "2011-03-23T14:20:37Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > Hamster powered turbines are just a pipedream. What we should do is put prisoners on treadmills. Have them produce the electricity for our dangerously unlit nation. Criminals like the dark though - we’d need cattle prods to provide the proper motivation and there we go using electricity to produce electricity again. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/819 "2011-03-23T14:33:19Z")
If only there were a way to turn hot air and opinions into a usable source of energy. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/820 "2011-03-23T16:20:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Interesting conclusion. I could just as easily say, “Here’s an example of how anti-nuclear organizations attempt to over-state nuclear deaths.” > > The ‘obfuscations’ you talk about are actually simply uncertainties. The situation was unique, the exposure patterns unique, and early guesses/estimates of the number of deaths that would result have been wrong. > > But let’s not forget that Chernobyl is not like the Japanese reactors - Chernobyl was built _without a containment dome_. Thus, when it went critical and exploded, large amounts of radiation were blown into the atmosphere. The open glowing reactor core could be seen by overflying aircraft. > > The containment domes around the reactors in Japan all held. This, despite a 1-in-1200 year earthquake event followed by a tsunami. So far, the radiation that has been released has not reached dangerous levels for anyone other than the workers on the plant compounds. > > It sure is a mess, but then earthquakes and tsunamis do that. Over 10,000 people were killed by various other causes, and none so far killed by radiation. > > More bad stuff could still happen, but so far I’d have to say the Japanese are lucky they had nuclear reactors instead of a large hydro dam - if such an earthquake struck the Sayano–Shushenskaya Dam in Russia, it would fail since it was only designed to withstand an 8.0 earthquake. And if it failed, it would kill over 200,000 people. > > Of course, you don’t even need an earthquake - that same dam had a malfunction last year that caused a massive explosion, killing 75 workers. And if not for the heroic efforts of other workers, that dam could well have failed. > > In 1975, a typhoon caused 62 dams to fail in China, killing somewhere between 90,000 and 230,000 people. > > Sources of concentrated energy are dangerous. Nuclear power so far has the best overall safety record of any of them, and will remain so even after the Japan disaster has run its course. The Japanese built 6 reactors in the same spot. That exacerbates the problems. The containment building in Japan blew apart. They did not hold. They are rubble exposing the fuel rod tanks to the air. There is radiation in 4 prefectures . Water and agriculture are getting overdosed. A dam can be rebuilt. This strip of land, very precious to an island country, is toast. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=42)