# Nuclear meltdown! Holy Godzilla NOOOO!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389 "2011-03-12T08:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/941 "2011-03-24T18:17:31Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Weird…I just read a report on [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/24/japan.nuclear.disaster/index.html?hpt=T2) that said that new testing of the water in Tokyo indicated radiation levels have dropped back below the levels of danger in infants. And you say they are getting higher? Strange… > > -XT You’re a disingenuous twat. That article is brand new. I can’t wait until any of the information in the article you just linked to changes, because I’m going to come back here, link to the latest breaking news, and make sure everyone here can see what an alarmist, lying, piece of shit you are. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/942 "2011-03-24T18:19:16Z")
The irony of your post is pretty much off the charts, levdrakon. -XT ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/943 "2011-03-24T18:21:30Z")
It’s over 9000 ---
**Author:** ![Carlo\_Big\_Tomatoes\_Tomassi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ac8455/32.png) [@Carlo\_Big\_Tomatoes\_Tomassi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carlo_Big_Tomatoes_Tomassi)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/944 "2011-03-24T18:54:01Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > [Japan investigates possible nuclear meltdown | CBC News](http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/03/11/earthquake-japan-nuclear-reactor.html) > > Who the hell could have predicted that a nuclear power plant, the most safe form of energy in the history of humanity with the exceptions of Chernobyl, Hanford, Windscale, etc. might melt down? It’s impossible in a modern reactor. Ipso facto, cuz I say so! Nobody could have predicted this. Kinda like nobody could have predicted 9/11 other than the people who did predict it. Certainly not those who own and operate nuclear reactors and make profits from them. They could not have predicted such a thing. They in fact declared it impossible for such a thing to happen. > > Who could have predicted a 8.9 or 9.0 or 9.1 earthquake near Japan? Fucking nobody, that’s who. Japan is seismically inactive! Everybody knows that! > > Now let’s get the government to spread the cost of repair and clean up among the whole population, while those injured can fend for them fucking selves. We wouldn’t want the people who invested and took the risk to actually pay for the cost of not preventing the unpredictable catastrophe! That might chill others into not making such risky investments. > > Privatize profits, socialize losses. It’s the American way. Such a patriotic capitalist windfall could never happen in a socialist country like Japan. We are on the cutting edge. Hey! I can see my hand glow in the dark! I have super powers!!! The problem isn’t building nuclear power plants. The problem is we haven’t been building new plants to replace the old ones. Think my '68 Chevy II will pass a smog test or protect me in a collision? Well, that’s when those power plants were built. On the matter of building nuclear power plants over subduction zones…:smack::smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/945 "2011-03-24T19:03:11Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It’s horseshit. You have yet to provide a cite showing that ‘renewables contribute 7%’ of our total energy. Your own cite doesn’t even SHOW wind or solar in the graph you moron…the only ‘renewable’ I see in there is hydro, and it’s fixed…it’s not ever going to get bigger in the US. > -XT Actually, while i agree with much of your argument, it does appear that non-hydro renewable energy does account for about 7% of US energy production. I’ve uploaded a chart to my webspace showing production and consumption figures for 2009. [Link](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/energy.png) As you can see, it lists non-hydro renewables as 7% of production and 5.4% of consumption for 2009. That’s in addition to 3.6% and 2.8% for hydro. It lists nuclear as 11.3% of production and 8.8% of consumption. The full report from which i took this graph can be downloaded from the U.S. Department of Energy [here](http://www1.eere.energy.gov/maps_data/pdfs/eere_databook.pdf) (10Mb PDF). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/946 "2011-03-24T19:08:29Z")
Ok…that makes sense. Biomass accounts for most of that…hydro is less than 3%. And wind and solar are so low they are almost off the chart. Thanks for the cite though…makes perfect sense to me now. -XT ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/947 "2011-03-24T19:22:57Z")
I thought it was horseshit? Turns out to be a lot of pigshit and cowshit. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/948 "2011-03-24T19:27:52Z")
No, turns out that it was an attempt at deception, and that the only way those figures work is because biomass accounts for most of that 7%…which is probably why levdrakon didn’t post a link to back up his assertions. -XT ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/949 "2011-03-24T19:40:49Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I thought it was horseshit? Turns out to be a lot of pigshit and cowshit. Well, the thing is that **levdrakon** , in arguing for the significance of renewable energy resources, has mentioned wind and solar on multiple occasions as viable alternatives to conventional and nuclear power, but has not once in this thread mentioned biomass. Yet, as my linked chart shows, biomass accounts for almost 80 percent of all non-hydro renewable energy production in the United States, while wind and solar combined account for about 14% of non-hydro renewable energy production, and a grand total of 1% of all US energy production. Equating “renewable energy” _only_ with solar and wind, as **levdrakon** has been doing, and then using the 7% renewable as your figure, when 85% of that 7% comes from sources that are not solar and not wind, is a little dishonest, i think. It’s like trying to make an argument for the superior performance of imported cars in America by taking the total number of imports but basing your performance numbers only on the figures for Ferraris and Lamborghinis. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/950 "2011-03-24T19:41:42Z")
Them internets people, they can be tricky. Meanwhile, back in the real world … > [@](#): > > Japan’s damaged nuclear plant in Fukushima has been emitting radioactive iodine and caesium at levels approaching those seen in the aftermath of the [Chernobyl accident](http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19225780.042-the-worlds-worst-nuclear-accident.html) in 1986. > **[Fukushima radioactive fallout nears Chernobyl levels](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20285-fukushima-radioactive-fallout-nears-chernobyl-levels/)** > > Read more: " Special report: The fallout from Fukushima " Video: Radioactive plume from Japanese reactor Ringing alarms worldwide Japan's damaged nuclear plant in Fukushima has been emitting radioactive iodine and caesium at levels approaching those... ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/951 "2011-03-24T19:44:02Z")
Exploding the nuke-nutter anti-wind["land area" myth](http://www.countercurrents.org/brown220411.htm): > [@](#): > > Since wind turbines occupy only 1 percent of the land covered by a wind farm, farmers and ranchers can continue to grow grain and graze cattle on land devoted to wind farms. In effect, they double-crop their land, simultaneously harvesting electricity and wheat, corn, or cattle. With no investment on their part, farmers and ranchers typically receive $3,000–10,000 a year in royalties for each wind turbine on their land. For thousands of ranchers in the U.S. Great Plains, wind royalties will dwarf their net earnings from cattle sales. Wind is a money maker: > [@](#): > > In considering the energy productivity of land, wind turbines are in a class by themselves. For example, an acre of land in northern Iowa planted in corn can yield $1,000 worth of ethanol per year. That same acre used to site a wind turbine can produce $300,000 worth of electricity per year. This helps explain why investors find wind farms so attractive. How much does your local nuke plant pay you for the privilege of taking your money and irradiating you and your children? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/952 "2011-03-24T19:46:02Z")
I think arguing with pr0 nuke true believers is about as productive as arguing with the people who knock on the door wanting to tell you about their religion. It can be entertaining, but don’t think for a minute they are going to abandon their faith. For any reason. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/953 "2011-03-24T20:01:31Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > I think arguing with pr0 nuke true believers is about as productive as arguing with the people who knock on the door wanting to tell you about their religion. It can be entertaining, but don’t think for a minute they are going to abandon their faith. For any reason. Funny thing is, i don’t consider myself a “true believer” in anything like a religious sense. As i said, i actually used to be ardently anti-nuke, and on most political issues i still tend to support the same sorts of ideals that many anti-nuke people support. My wife is quite strongly anti-nuke, and i completely understand the concern that people have about nuclear power in general, as well as about the specific ways in which it is implemented and the short cuts taken in the name of profit. My own change of mind on the nuclear issue came after considerable reading as well as considerable soul-searching. As i said earlier, i would truly be happy if we could get all the energy we need from wind and solar, but i simply am not convinced that this is possible, given the constraints of the technology and the ever-growing power demands of our modern society. I support every effort to increase renewable energy generation, and if i could afford my own house right now the first thing i’d do is whack some solar panels on my roof so the sunny San Diego weather could help fill my energy requirements. As for the whole issue of faith and religion, i submit that anti-nuke folks like you are no less susceptible to irrationality and hidebound stubbornness in the face of logic than pro-nuke people are. This thread is Exhibit A. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/954 "2011-03-24T20:03:24Z")
What’s so hilarious, is that before this disaster, I could care less about nuclear power. If they got the plant under control today, I would go back to not giving a shit. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/955 "2011-03-24T20:06:04Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > What’s so hilarious, is that before this disaster, I could care less about nuclear power. If they got the plant under control today, I would go back to not giving a shit. So you admit that you’ve always cared? I had a feeling. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/956 "2011-03-24T20:13:02Z")
The only time I care about nuclear power is when shit goes wrong, and it effects my bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/957 "2011-03-24T20:24:17Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > The only time I care about nuclear power is when shit goes wrong, and it effects my bottom line. It brings about your bottom line? Now I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/958 "2011-03-24T20:42:12Z")
No doubt. Who cares? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/959 "2011-03-24T20:47:45Z")
> [@Carlo\_Big\_Tomatoes\_Tomassi](#): > > The problem isn’t building nuclear power plants. The problem is we haven’t been building new plants to replace the old ones. Think my '68 Chevy II will pass a smog test or protect me in a collision? Well, that’s when those power plants were built. > > On the matter of building nuclear power plants over subduction zones…:smack::smack::smack: You can still die in a car crash. But it doesn’t give one-tenth of your neighbors cancer over the next 50 years. As for building nukes on the ring of fire with 9.5 quakes and 120 foot tsunamis and only preparing for a hundredth of that, to quote the great philosopher Einstein, “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.” ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/960 "2011-03-24T20:50:43Z")
A real issue is that the Japanese still have a shitload of other reactors and fuel rods, all in the same situation. Low, close to ocean, with no plan for what to do if a tsunamis hits them. Counting on no more tsunamis probably isn’t a very good emergency plan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=47) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=49)