# Nuclear meltdown! Holy Godzilla NOOOO!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389 "2011-03-12T08:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1021 "2011-03-25T16:02:31Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > This is one definition, yes, but I think they may be referring to [molten reactor core material.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_(nuclear_reactor)) Huh, goes to show how nice context is. If only he’d provided some… ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1022 "2011-03-25T16:04:33Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The news I’m reading is that the water was “10,000 times more radioactive than normal.” This is not at all the same thing as “workers received a dose 10,000 times the safe limit.” > > MRI’s do not subject patients to ionizing radiation; perhaps you were thinking of a CT scan. > > Got any facts? What I read was the level was 10,000 higher than normal for that section. The water in that sections gets exposed to the core, but the core is safe and undamaged so that radiation is a bit surprising. It was certainly surprising to the people who stood in it ankle deep for 40 minutes. I await your explanation as to how core radiation is contaminating water it is safely not in any contact with. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1023 "2011-03-25T16:20:51Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What I read was the level was 10,000 higher than normal for that section. The water in that sections gets exposed to the core, but the core is safe and undamaged so that radiation is a bit surprising. It was certainly surprising to the people who stood in it ankle deep for 40 minutes. > > I await your explanation as to how core radiation is contaminating water it is safely not in any contact with. I’m not aware of the specifics of this situation, but nuclear medicine largely works by bombarding non-radioactive materials with proton streams to produce radioactive versions (Oxygen 18 to Fluoride 18 mainly in my industry). Similarly gamma and neutron bombardment through physical barriers can activate the water and anything dissolved in it. Deionized water is generally used because of a lack of dissolved material, sea water may contain a number of materials that could become activated and then emit ionizing radiation to those in contact or proximity to the water. This is all just speculation on my part though. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1024 "2011-03-25T16:40:00Z")
Here’s the [latest from CSM](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0325/Japan-nuclear-update-Possible-reactor-breach-evacuation-zone-expanding): > [@](#): > > But a serious accident March 24, in which three workers were exposed to radiation in the turbine room of the No. 3 reactor, alerted authorities to the possible reactor breach, according to NHK World News. > > The workers were dragging an electrical cable through contaminated water to restart a crucial pump when water poured over their protective boots, soaking their feet. They ignored warning alarms sounded by their personal radiation dosimeters, perhaps in the belief that they were faulty, according to an account of the accident from the International Atomic Energy Agency. > > Two of the three workers were taken to a nearby hospital, where they will remain under observation for at least four days, said the IAEA. > > An examination of the water the workers sloshed through showed its radiation level to be 10,000 times higher than normal, said NHK. The radiation almost certainly came from the reactor itself, not the nearby spent-fuel pools, according to officials. Wow, they ignored the radiation alarms and kept working. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1025 "2011-03-25T16:57:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Wow, they ignored the radiation alarms and kept working. Yeah, sadly there’s an old-school mentality in some of the nuclear industry that ‘real men take dose’. I was lucky enough to see that banished from my location when I started working. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1026 "2011-03-25T16:58:29Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > > [@CSM](#): > > > > They ignored warning alarms sounded by their personal radiation dosimeters, perhaps in the belief that they were faulty, according to an account of the accident from the International Atomic Energy Agency. > > Wow, they ignored the radiation alarms and kept working. Well naturally, whem I’m working in ankle-deep water that might be radioactive, and my dosimeter goes off, my first reaction is that the dosimeter must be faulty. It’s what any sane person would think. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1027 "2011-03-25T17:51:50Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Huh, goes to show how nice context is. If only he’d provided some… I’m guessing that it went along the lines of “there is no danger of corium being released…” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1028 "2011-03-25T18:29:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Friday it has begun injecting freshwater into the No. 1 and No. 3 reactor cores at the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant to enhance cooling efficiency, but highly radioactive water was later found leaking near all four troubled reactor units at the plant. > > A day after three workers were exposed to water containing radioactive materials 10,000 times the normal level at the turbine building connected to the No. 3 reactor building, a water pool with similarly highly concentrated radioactive materials was found in the No. 1 reactor’s turbine building, causing some restoration work to be suspended, it said. > **[Login - Kyodo News](https://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/81133.html)** I’m seriously starting to become concerned for my fucking lungs at this point. Serious engineer types and nuclear physics understanding bastards with cool heads are beginning to jitter. There may be no way to stop it. Of course I fucking well panicked over that shit two weeks ago, but now it looks all official and shit. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1029 "2011-03-25T18:33:56Z")
Of course a kid with a remote controlled helicopter, some duct tape and a digital camera would have better video of the place than any of the media or “official” sites have shown anyone. Hell grandma shuffling around with her cane and a Geiger counter would have reported better readings than TEPCO about the four reactor buildings by now. Or what’s left of them. But hey, the fucking herd won’t panic if they don’t know what a wolf even looks like, and the Shepard protects his flock. Because he is going to make chops out of the tender ones this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1030 "2011-03-25T19:14:07Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Of course a kid with a remote controlled helicopter, some duct tape and a digital camera would have better video of the place than any of the media or “official” sites have shown anyone. You freak out about the leaking radiation but don’t even think of the effect that would have on unshielded electronics? > [@](#): > > Hell grandma shuffling around with her cane and a Geiger counter would have reported better readings than TEPCO about the four reactor buildings by now. Or what’s left of them. Geiger counters? Cascading makes them unreliable. I’d choose a Geiger-Mueller myself, but hey you’re an ‘expert’ or some crap. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1031 "2011-03-25T21:39:21Z")
> [@](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/world/asia/26japan.html?\_r=4&hp=&pagewanted=all](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/world/asia/26japan.html?_r=4&hp=&pagewanted=all) > > \*A senior nuclear executive who insisted on anonymity but has broad contacts in Japan said that there was a long vertical crack running down the side of the reactor vessel itself. The crack runs down below the water level in the reactor and has been leaking fluids and gases, he said. > > The severity of the radiation burns to the injured workers are consistent with contamination by water that had been in contact with damaged fuel rods, the executive said. > > “There is a definite, definite crack in the vessel — it’s up and down and it’s large,” he said. “The problem with cracks is they do not get smaller.” > > But Michael Friedlander, a former nuclear power plant operator in the United States, said that the presence of radioactive cobalt and molybdenum in water samples taken from the basement of the turbine building raised the possibility of a very different leak. > > Both materials typically occur not because of fission but because of routine corrosion in a reactor and its associated piping over the course of many years of use, he said. > > The aggressive use of saltwater to cool the reactor and its storage pool for spent fuel may mean that more of these highly radioactive corrosion materials will be dislodged and contaminate the area in the days to come, posing further hazards to repair workers, Mr. Friedlander added. Whichever explanation is accurate, the contamination of the water in the basement of the turbine building poses a real challenge for efforts to bring crucial cooling pumps and other equipment back online. > > “They can’t even figure out how to get that out, it’s so hot” in terms of radioactivity, the senior nuclear executive said.\* > > (Published: March 25, 2011) Looking at the analysis of the water that burned the workers it’s obvious that the reactor was breached. The Chlorine-38 is an oddity, but no doubt due to the sea water that has been used. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1032 "2011-03-25T21:57:18Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Looking at the analysis of the water that burned the workers it’s obvious that the reactor was breached. The Chlorine-38 is an oddity, but no doubt due to the sea water that has been used. Cite, please? After all, for us poor shmucks who lack your knowledge of nuclear fission and reactor design, following your earlier statements that the entire site is a nuclear hellhole, it’s hard to see why the presence of radioactive water in the basement is a surprise. Why, haven’t you stated repeatedly that the whole area is highly radioactive? What makes this latest incident of low level radiation exposure significant? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1033 "2011-03-26T01:34:22Z")
The technical term is “it’s a clusterfuck!” We aren’t going to know the full extent and the specifics of the Fukushima clusterfuck until a full post-mortem is done. And that will take years. And then we will have to wait for the official release. Unless we adopt the position that nothing really bad can happen and refuse to move off of that position no matter who is fleeing the country and how many people are suffering radiation exposure and how badly. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1034 "2011-03-26T01:42:59Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The news I’m reading is that the water was “10,000 times more radioactive than normal.” This is not at all the same thing as “workers received a dose 10,000 times the safe limit.” > > MRI’s do not subject patients to ionizing radiation; perhaps you were thinking of a CT scan. > > Got any facts? [Japan workers exposed to 10,000 times safe radiation - Arabian Business: Latest News on the Middle East, Real Estate, Finance, and More](http://www.arabianbusiness.com/japan-workers-exposed-10-000-times-safe-radiation-389938.html) None that you can understand. read it. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1035 "2011-03-26T02:47:03Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Japan workers exposed to 10,000 times safe radiation - Arabian Business: Latest News on the Middle East, Real Estate, Finance, and More](http://www.arabianbusiness.com/japan-workers-exposed-10-000-times-safe-radiation-389938.html) None that you can understand. read it. The headline says, “10 000 times safe radiation”. The article says, “10 000 times usual level”. What to believe? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1036 "2011-03-26T03:05:49Z")
> [@Mycroft\_Holmes](#): > > Wait, Spain is bankrupt? Since when? Man, we just got finished bailing out the Greeks, the Irish, the Portuguese and now the Spaniards too? Remind me to move to a country with a lot less debt, like the U.S. > > I live in Germany and my taxes have not gone up 1 cent. The energy I get delivered to my home (used for everything but central heating) is already 100% from renewable sources (so called “Grüner Strom”) and not more expensive than other energy. > > I think pretty soon the remaining nuclear plants in Germany will be shut down because the Green Party and the SPD will be winning a few elections. Especially now that a liberal party politician has come out and said that the current shutdown was just done to win votes: [Fallout continues after Brüderle’s nuclear gaffe](http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20110325-33965.html) OMG! **Sam Stone** just made a bunch of shit up and called it facts? OMFG! What’s next? Claiming that a cite says something it doesn’t say? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1037 "2011-03-26T03:37:09Z")
> [@Mycroft\_Holmes](#): > > I live in Germany and my taxes have not gone up 1 cent. The energy I get delivered to my home (used for everything but central heating) is already 100% from renewable sources (so called “Grüner Strom”) and not more expensive than other energy. > > I think pretty soon the remaining nuclear plants in Germany will be shut down because the Green Party and the SPD will be winning a few elections. Especially now that a liberal party politician has come out and said that the current shutdown was just done to win votes: [Fallout continues after Brüderle’s nuclear gaffe](http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20110325-33965.html) Thanks for posting. Around here, anytime someone cites Germany’s approaches to energy, they are immediately slammed with how Germany is a complete failure, the people are starving and living in the streets, Business is non-existent, and anyone who thinks it’s okay for ordinary people to generate power and feed it to the grid are communist baby-killing monsters. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1038 "2011-03-26T03:43:01Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > and anyone who thinks it’s okay for ordinary people to generate power and feed it to the grid are communist baby-killing monsters. Just because babies are carbon neutral doesnt mean its okay to burn em for fuel. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1039 "2011-03-26T03:57:21Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > The headline says, “10 000 times safe radiation”. The article says, “10 000 times usual level”. What to believe? I hear ya. You might think they would report what was in the water, the isotopes, and what amounts. Or report it in an amount using standard units, so scientists and smart people around the world could know what is happening. But no, they actually phrase it as “10,000 times the ‘normal’ amount found in the reactor.” Which CNN and others turned into 10,000 times normal, like water has some sort of normal level of deadly radiation. Even so, they don’t say what the ‘normal’ level is, so nobody knows shit about what really happened. Except for experts in radiation who know exactly what it means when after 45 minutes your skin is burned from contact with radioactive material. I don’t know anybody who still buys the bullshit that “they just don’t know”, or “they are too busy to take measurements of the radiation levels”, or whatever excuse/rationalization the true nuclear believer is hanging onto. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1040 "2011-03-26T04:00:17Z")
Meanwhile the idiot press has ramped up their fear mongering, claiming that “Nuclear crisis now worse than Three Mile Island”. Now you say that? You complete fucking tools. It was way worse than three mile island the day the first reactor building blew to shit. The second and third explosions might have been a clue. You fear mongering bastards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=53)