# Nuclear meltdown! Holy Godzilla NOOOO!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389 "2011-03-12T08:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 77
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1521 "2011-04-12T04:19:35Z")
> **[TEPCOs\_Nuclear\_Power\_Plants\_suffered\_big\_eart\_quake110331.pdf](https://www.f.waseda.jp/okay/news_en/news_content/TEPCOs_Nuclear_Power_Plants_suffered_big_eart_quake110331.pdf)** > > 637.24 KB Explains the cause of the Fail ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1522 "2011-04-12T04:21:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Prime Minister Naoto Kan’s blood must have run cold around 10 p.m. on March 11, the day of the Great East Japan Earthquake, when he received the first report on the terrible situation at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant. > > The report from the Nuclear and Industry Safety Agency of the Economy, Trade and Industry Ministry predicted reactor cores at the nuclear power plant–where power and all functions to cool the reactors were lost in the quake and tsunami–would be exposed to air, and that extreme heat generated by fuel rods would damage their encasing tubes later that night. > > Fuel rods would melt down, and the following morning the pressure inside the reactors’ containment vessels would reach the maximum allowed for by the facilities’ designers, the report predicted. > > Kan and everyone at the Prime Minister’s Office understood the seriousness of the situation described by the report. > > There were only two options that might prevent a meltdown of the reactors–either restore the plant’s power supply and cooling functions immediately, or pour water directly into the reactors. If neither course of action could be taken, the pressure inside the reactors would become so great that they would be destroyed. [http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110411004567.htm](http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110411004567.htm) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1523 "2011-04-12T04:23:50Z")
I said long ago you can not trust what the nuke plant owners ,operators and the government have to say. They lie.That is what they always do. Was BP so long ago? Can people not remember what they said was about the amount of oil spilling? There is a liability involved. They will lie to lower their responsibility as much as they can. The US government backed up most of BPs claims. they did not want people to point the finger their way either. But inspection and regulation are government functions. When something bad happens, people want to know why. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1524 "2011-04-12T04:35:40Z")
Now they’re emphasizing that the 7 rating is for the start of the situation and not necessarily what it’s at right now. They’re still analyzing the data. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1525 "2011-04-12T04:46:30Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > BBC is reporting the authorities are emphasizing this is not because of something new that has happened, but rather their assessment of the situation from the beginning, now that they’ve had time to analyze all the data and take stock of the situation, they now are provisionally giving it a 7 rating and want the public to know about it as soon as they’ve made this decision. If they were trying to cover something up, I doubt they’d be taking pains to do this. That’s what I read as well. They’re basically saying it was a 7 way back towards the beginning, based on how much radioactive material has been released. They either didn’t know that for sure at the time, or didn’t want to admit it. There was a European country saying it’s basically a 7 way back then, but that was dismissed as fear mongering. No one has authority to assign an official scale rating to a nuclear accident except the host country. If Japan wants to call it a 3 or 5 or 7, it’s pretty much their choice. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1526 "2011-04-12T04:47:26Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Now they’re emphasizing that the 7 rating is for the start of the situation and not necessarily what it’s at right now. They’re still analyzing the data. Well there were a number of people on this board who complained that it was dishonest to report this as a 7 back then because it was not officially declared a 7. And now that it is declared a 7 you seem to be laying a foundation to say that it is no longer a 7. So it has never been proper to label it a 7 because it wasn’t officially and publicly labeled a 7 at the time it was and now that it was at one point a 7 it has become officially and publicly labeled a 7, but wait, that ain’t right because the official and public label does not match up with the time line, they never coincide all at once, so this all isn’t that bad and nothing to be alarmed about. It appears to me that y’all think you are a bunch of clever and sophisticated arguers when in fact you’re nothing but liars and deluded fools. This clusterfuck brought to you by the evil people at GE. At GE, we irradiate things to levels on charts. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1527 "2011-04-12T04:49:10Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > There was a European country saying it’s basically a 7 way back then, but that was dismissed as fear mongering. Well, we sure as hell don’t want fear mongering. Everybody move along, there is no yellowcake or WMD to see here. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1528 "2011-04-12T04:49:13Z")
I’m just saying what BBC is reporting in the last few moments. Make of it what you will, but I promise it’s not some sort of dastardly plot on my part. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1529 "2011-04-12T05:07:32Z")
I’m pretty sure it was France that said it was level 7. I probably made a joke about France not knowing anything about nuclear power. I still hope this doesn’t end up being a level 8 The problem is, there isn’t any plan, or even a hint of a plan, to turn it into anything less than a 7. It’s all fingers in the dike and frantic scrambling to stop it from getting worse. It’s fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1530 "2011-04-12T13:48:20Z")
[QUOTE=FXMastermind] I’m pretty sure it was France that said it was level 7. I probably made a joke about France not knowing anything about nuclear power. [/QUOTE] No, you stated that it had officially been rated a 7 (several weeks ago), and when you were called on it you just handwaved it away. It’s pretty amusing how you are trying to spin this the way you are. > [@](#): > > I still hope this doesn’t end up being a level 8 Considering the scale only goes up to level 7, and the fact that they are saying that it’s released 10% of what Chernobyl did, I’d say that your hope will be fulfilled. Of course, it helps to actually know something about the subject… > [@](#): > > The problem is, there isn’t any plan, or even a hint of a plan, to turn it into anything less than a 7. It’s all fingers in the dike and frantic scrambling to stop it from getting worse. And yet according to every non-chicken little article I’ve read about this, it seems they have stabilized things, and that the situation is getting better. The radiation they are monitoring has gone down in most cases, power has been restored, the coolant system is working, they are getting nitrogen into the containment vessels, and all this despite getting hit with at least two more earth quakes over 6.0 (the one yesterday actually killed a number of people…8-10 IIRC). But you keep thinking that they aren’t doing anything, have no plan, and are just putting their fingers in the dike. Heck, you’ve got your fingers in your ears and your head up your ass, so you probably think that this is how it’s done. -XT ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1531 "2011-04-12T13:55:30Z")
Dude, that’s totally not cool. They prefer the term “lesbian”. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1532 "2011-04-12T14:13:17Z")
some long boom concrete pumping trucks were just, days ago, sent to Japan. report was to spray water from a safe distance. seems the cooling systems are not working if they need to do that. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1533 "2011-04-12T14:53:45Z")
Do you have a cite? They fixed the cooling system days ago, and from everything I’ve read it’s working fine. They had it go out for like 50 minutes yesterday during the latest earthquake, but it came back on line with no issues I’ve heard about. -XT ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1534 "2011-04-12T15:16:22Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Do you have a cite? They fixed the cooling system days ago, and from everything I’ve read it’s working fine. They had it go out for like 50 minutes yesterday during the latest earthquake, but it came back on line with no issues I’ve heard about. > > -XT > **[Login - Kyodo News](https://english.kyodonews.jp/photos/2011/04/84680.html)** ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1535 "2011-04-12T16:03:00Z")
I don’t even know what to make of that cite. It’s from today (well, April 13th, but that’s in Japan), but it’s rather sparse on details…and, as I said, everything I’ve read says they aren’t pouring water over the reactors anymore to keep them cool…they are using trucks to pump water into the facilities using the pumping infrastructure, so maybe that’s where the confusion is (the article users pouring, but it might be a translation thing). At any rate, [here](http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html) is the IAEA’s latest about raising this up to a level 7 for anyone interested. > [@](#): > > The Japanese Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) today issued a new provisional rating for the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant on the IAEA International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES). > > The nuclear accident at Fukushima Daiichi is now rated as a level 7 “Major Accident” on INES. Level 7 is the most serious level on INES and is used to describe an event comprised of “A major release of radioactive material with widespread health and environmental effects requiring implementation of planned and extended countermeasures”. Japanese authorities notified the IAEA in advance of the public announcement and the formal submission of the new provisional rating. > > The new provisional rating considers the accidents that occurred at Units 1, 2 and 3 as a single event on INES. Previously, separate INES Level 5 ratings had been applied for Units 1, 2 and 3. The provisional INES Level 3 rating assigned for Unit 4 still applies. > > The re-evaluation of the Fukushima Daiichi provisional INES rating resulted from an estimate of the total amount of radioactivity released to the environment from the nuclear plant. NISA estimates that the amount of radioactive material released to the atmosphere is approximately 10% of the 1986 Chernobyl accident, which is the only other nuclear accident to have been rated a Level 7 event. > > Earlier ratings of the nuclear accident at Fukushima Daiichi were assessed as follows: > > On 18 March, Japanese authorities rated the core damage at the Fukushima Daiichi 1, 2 and 3 reactor Units caused by loss of all cooling function to have been at Level 5 on the INES scale. They further assessed that the loss of cooling and water supplying functions in the spent fuel pool of the Unit 4 reactor to have been rated at Level 3. [Here](http://www-ns.iaea.org/tech-areas/emergency/ines.asp) is a link to a chart explaining the INES rating system. -XT ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1536 "2011-04-12T16:21:57Z")
if the need was to relay water using trucks then they could use less expensive pumping units and hoses. this has a long boom that can be extended aerially. this [http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/85030.html](http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/04/85030.html) indicates the cooling hasn’t been restored. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1537 "2011-04-12T16:28:18Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > No, you stated that it had officially been rated a 7 (several weeks ago), and when you were called on it you just handwaved it away. It’s pretty amusing how you are trying to spin this the way you are. > > Considering the scale only goes up to level 7, and the fact that they are saying that it’s released 10% of what Chernobyl did, I’d say that your hope will be fulfilled. Of course, it helps to actually know something about the subject… > > And yet according to every non-chicken little article I’ve read about this, it seems they have stabilized things, and that the situation is getting better. The radiation they are monitoring has gone down in most cases, power has been restored, the coolant system is working, they are getting nitrogen into the containment vessels, and all this despite getting hit with at least two more earth quakes over 6.0 (the one yesterday actually killed a number of people…8-10 IIRC). > > But you keep thinking that they aren’t doing anything, have no plan, and are just putting their fingers in the dike. Heck, you’ve got your fingers in your ears and your head up your ass, so you probably think that this is how it’s done. > > -XT It did not turn 7 today. As you argue that it is coming under control now, how would that make sense. As it gets better the rating goes up? That makes no sense at all. If they are getting it under control the rating would drop. It was a 7 weeks ago. They just did not want to admit it. They lie and cover up. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1538 "2011-04-12T16:44:52Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Dude, that’s totally not cool. They prefer the term “lesbian”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1539 "2011-04-12T16:46:29Z")
According to [this story](http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110412/japan-nuke-crisis-worsens-110412/20110412/?hub=CalgaryHome): > [@](#): > > In this photo released by Tokyo Electric Power Co., workers operate a modified Putzmeister 70Z, the world’s largest concrete pump mounted on a truck, **to pump contaminated water from the Unit 4** at the tsunami-damaged Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant in Okumamachi, Fukushima Prefecture, northeastern Japan, Tuesday, April 12, 2011. (Tokyo Electric Power Co.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/1540 "2011-04-12T17:04:45Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] It did not turn 7 today. As you argue that it is coming under control now, how would that make sense. As it gets better the rating goes up? That makes no sense at all. If they are getting it under control the rating would drop. [/QUOTE] Have you ever actually tried reading any of the stuff I cite? I mean, just as a change of pace? > [@](#): > > It was a 7 weeks ago. They just did not want to admit it. No…it wasn’t. It was a provision 5 weeks ago (as well as last week, as well as day before yesterday) while they evaluated the data. It’s a provisional 7 now, since the data seems to indicate that it should be, and the final analysis of where the level will be fixed in the future history of this event will be determined after the event is over and the data is fully developed and analyzed. See, that’s how things work in the real world. People don’t just pull numbers out of their ass…they actually have to look at that data stuff and develop it to get real results. I realize this is a difficult concept for you, since you are so used to doing it the other way. > [@](#): > > They lie and cover up. Again, it’s a race to the bottom between you and FXM. Who is stupider? It’s really difficult to tell. I think you have more native talent at being stupid, but FXM is hungrier and more assertive in his stupidity. He also might be a touch crazy, while you are just…well, really stupid. Probably a coin flip would be the only real way to determine who wins the race. -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=76) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=78)