# Nuclear meltdown! Holy Godzilla NOOOO!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 12, 2011, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389 "2011-03-12T08:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/161 "2011-03-12T23:28:46Z")
[This](http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/12/japan.quake.nuclear.failure/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1) is a bit more of a comprehensive cite, which makes it seem that the official in question is basing his opinion on the fact that they measured some cesium and iodine outside of the reactor and not on any new information. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/162 "2011-03-12T23:36:04Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Now they have to die? Keep moving those goal posts. No one did. Just that “160 people were exposed to increased levels of radiation” is a phrase almost entirely devoid of meaning without context. What was the actual level? Where were they when it occurred? When did it happen? What was the treatment? Just saying what you said doesn’t make this a calamity, and getting hysterical and hyperbolic doesn’t make you closer to being right. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/163 "2011-03-12T23:41:40Z")
A built in _caveat_. Public panic is definitely and legitimately a public safety issue. If it were my decision, I probably would be very, very careful in public statements. Indeed, it would be hard to fault someone for downplaying the severity of events in the interests of such public safety issues. Hence it is entirely reasonable to read these statements as likely understating the severity of the situation. Most likely, people who can leave are already leaving, and in a comparatively orderly fashion, compared to what would happen if you released an Official Panic Authorization. This is not an accusation, just as I say, I doubt I would do anything differently, certainly not in valuing candor and clarity above public safety. Just sayin’ we have good reason to be skeptical. At any rate, it will all come clear, soon enough. If they tell us it didn’t go ker-plooey, the absence of corpses will be evidence enough. And if it does, there won’t be any hiding it, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/164 "2011-03-12T23:43:38Z")
The presence of radioactive cesium and iodine, that’s just normal background radiation. Nothing to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/165 "2011-03-12T23:46:04Z")
I just need one more person to falsely claim that people are saying there’s nothing to worry about and I get a free sub. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/166 "2011-03-12T23:46:37Z")
Relax. All is well. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/167 "2011-03-12T23:49:14Z")
Sadly, I can’t punch the card for you twice, FX. ---
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/168 "2011-03-12T23:51:07Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > It’s always a great idea to start promoting how safe something is, while the something you are promoting as safe is being fought … …after surviving the largest quake ever recorded in the region, despite moving the entire island nation about eight feet and knocking the _planet_ 4 inches off it’s axis, then it must be pretty safe, huh? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/169 "2011-03-12T23:55:36Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Bulletin: nuclear meltdown is underway. That is according to the Japanese official. Note that this is occurring despite the happy crap posted upthread about meltdowns being impossible and not happening in this case. While I agree that it’s possible to overestimate the dangers of nuclear plants, it’s also possible to _underestimate_ their dangers, and nuclear proponents are no less clouded by their own wishful thinking than their opposition. The truth as I understand it is, it’s possible to make these plants considerably saf **er** (not absolutely safe) against earthquakes – whether modern upgrades were properly performed on this _particular_ plant remains to be seen. One reason a meltdown us a big deal, even if it doesn’t do very much damage, is that we have been repeatedly assured by engineers and authorities that it cannot, under any circumstances, happen. So when it happens, it becomes clear that those in charge are either deliberately lying to us, or do not understand the science as well as they claimed, neither of which is a comforting possibility to the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/170 "2011-03-12T23:56:21Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > I just need one more person to falsely claim that people are saying there’s nothing to worry about and I get a free sub. Nothing is happening. Radiation is even healthy! The only reason they’re evacuating is so they can prepare the surprise party! :rolleyes: Damn, I don’t even agree with the people making these mocking statements. I better get part of that sub, Raygun ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/171 "2011-03-13T00:08:47Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It’s what plants _crave_. Especially Nuclear Plants! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/172 "2011-03-13T00:13:59Z")
I have to say I have a lot of sympathy for **elucidator’s** post #70 (which I note no defender of nuclear power addressed at all). As much as I agree that a lot (perhaps even a majority) of opposition to it is based on irrationality, I can’t help but think that nuclear power plants safe _only insofar as its designers, builders, maintainers, and overseers want it to be._ Yes, BP was mostly due to incompetence, not malice, but that’s sure no comfort to everyone on the Gulf, is it? And they may yet dodge any serious consequences for it. And that’s never mind the nuclear waste disposal issue; I’m sure that a good number of corporations would just dump it into the sewer given half the chance. So as much as I think that nuclear should have a chance, I wonder about things like this. Why should we trust the people who run them to have the best interest of anyone else at heart, when any consequences could just be easily wiped away by a few good lawyers, some press releases, and a fine that’s not nearly enough to do them any major harm? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/173 "2011-03-13T00:14:39Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I hope everybody realizes the following: > > a) the authorities are reacting seriously and (to this observer) effectively to protect the people in the surrounding areas, including measuring radiation levels, testing and caring for those who may have been exposed to radiation and communicating their actions and the possible dangers to the affected people and the world press; > b) no one of any authority who’s been interviewed has been dismissive of the dangers; and > c) no one with any experience in nuclear power or emergency management who has posted to this thread has been exactly cavalier about what’s happening. Thank Godzilla that the nuclear power lovers are sincere, sober people. It makes the devastating losses around Chernobyl so much easier to bear to this day. If we were to focus on imagined scenes of shareholders celebrating because they are not picking up the bill and the public is, we might actually get worked up into a froth over it. > [@Raygun99](#): > > I just need one more person to falsely claim that people are saying there’s nothing to worry about and I get a free sub. A nuclear sub? Because those are really safe too. [http://spb.org.ru/bellona/ehome/russia/nfl/nfl8.htm](http://spb.org.ru/bellona/ehome/russia/nfl/nfl8.htm) > [@An\_Arky](#): > > The thing is, it’s really early on here. There’s undoubtedly refineries, chemical plants, cars, etc. that have been washed into the ocean. That stuff is absolutely, positively going to have a toxic result. The nuclear plant thing, while indeed very troubling, still won’t measure up to all the rest, even if you apply the worst case scaredy-cat bugaboo factor. At this point, it’s ALL bad news, all of it. There’s really not much point in picking on the nuclear plant. Yes, because it is never the time to talk about gun safety after a Columbine or Giffords type shooting, because that is just using current events to make political points and everybody knows that political points are dirty, dirty things and much worse than recurrences of bad current events, which are isolated incidents that must be considered to the one of the kind incidents because each has a slightly different set of facts. > [@Muffin](#): > > Google on Oklo – there were naturally occurring underground nuclear reactions there a couple of billion years ago. There is no evidence to indicate that it later affected human evolution. Humans are the Godzilla, Mothra type mutants that emerged from that freak of nature. There is no evidence that is not true. Not that we need evidence to be snarky in the pit. > [@FXMastermind](#): > > 20 minutes ago > [http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-nuclear-cooling-idUSTRE72B3GI20110312](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/12/us-japan-quake-nuclear-cooling-idUSTRE72B3GI20110312) > > At some point I am going to start to be concerned. I have been assured that nuclear and coal power are nothing to be concerned about. Energy engineers with white dress shirts, thin ties and horn rimmed glasses at airports convince me that expensive, centralized, enormous energy potential plants are the best for all our electrical needs. Energy will be so cheap that it won’t pay to meter it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/174 "2011-03-13T00:21:37Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I have to say I have a lot of sympathy for **elucidator’s** post #70 (which I note no defender of nuclear power addressed at all). As much as I agree that a lot (perhaps even a majority) of opposition to it is based on irrationality, I can’t help but think that nuclear power plants safe _only insofar as its designers, builders, maintainers, and overseers want it to be._ > > Yes, BP was mostly due to incompetence, not malice, but that’s sure no comfort to everyone on the Gulf, is it? And they may yet dodge any serious consequences for it. And that’s never mind the nuclear waste disposal issue; I’m sure that a good number of corporations would just dump it into the sewer given half the chance. > > So as much as I think that nuclear should have a chance, I wonder about things like this. Why should we trust the people who run them to have the best interest of anyone else at heart, when any consequences could just be easily wiped away by a few good lawyers, some press releases, and a fine that’s not nearly enough to do them any major harm? Too much safety and caution interferes with profits. Regulations interfere with profits. Profits are much more important to the investors than the risk of damage to bystanders and the environment, especially when the taxpayers pick up the bill and investors hide behind corporate anonymity. That is why we have corporations so that investors are not personally liable for the damage caused by the corporations’ managers. Duh. What we cannot control is that sometimes government agencies and committees get people involved who take regulation more seriously than is necessary to maximize profits because they don’t understand that really bad financial and environmental catastrophes are going to be alright because the cost of them will be passed on to all the taxpayers, and not the ones who took the risk. The reason you cannot socialize medicine is because if you used a socialized idea in a way that benefits humanity, then people might realize that money would not be well spent socializing financial and environmental disaster costs. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/175 "2011-03-13T00:24:35Z")
Yow, now there is a difference between the rods melting and a meltdown. But the sad fact is the plant is done permanently. there are 5 plants being watched now. Two are serious. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/176 "2011-03-13T00:39:18Z")
The only solution is to nuke the remaining plants from orbit to ensure they don’t melt down, too. That’ll teach them and their owners for trying to produce relatively clean energy. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/177 "2011-03-13T00:42:14Z")
I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that I can’t tell The Gonz’s posts from Second Stone’s without looking at the user name. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/178 "2011-03-13T00:44:48Z")
I had no idea nuclear power engineering was in any way related to the lack of socialized medicine in the US (except for the VA system, of course), but I’m grateful to **The Second Stone** for tying it all together for me. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/179 "2011-03-13T00:45:10Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Thank Godzilla that the nuclear power lovers are sincere, sober people. It makes the devastating losses around Chernobyl so much easier to bear to this day. If we were to focus on imagined scenes of shareholders celebrating because they are not picking up the bill and the public is, we might actually get worked up into a froth over it. You know, your argument might be a little more convincing if you hadn’t previously mentioned (in other threads) that you have a financial stake in Wind power. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389/180 "2011-03-13T00:50:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that I can’t tell The Gonz’s posts from Second Stone’s without looking at the user name. I am just reporting the news as it comes out. i have not stated my position in this thread. I just do not like the government spokesmen not revealing the truth though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-meltdown-holy-godzilla-noooo/574389.md?page=10)