# Nuclear Option **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 13, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529 "2011-10-13T14:12:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/21 "2011-10-16T00:15:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That is too an argument! It is not! wait… ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/22 "2011-10-17T11:42:53Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It is very difficult to have any kind of debate with you when I quote a respected conservative who is a recognized expert in this field who actually says, “Reid did not use the nuclear option, he did not do anything unprecedented, and he did not in any real way change the rules with a majority vote.” > > Then you respond by repeating your debunked statements, in essence, that Reid used the nuclear option, this is unprecedented, and he rewrote Senate rules. > > I came here for an argument, not simple contradiction. Ornstein is not a conservative and “in any real way” seems to leave it open for debate. Would you at least agree with that? Come on…throw me a bone here. ---
**Author:** ![raskolnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47c2d/32.png) [@raskolnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raskolnik)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/23 "2011-10-17T12:06:21Z")
PLease limit all ‘gang of X’ to CCP politics where it has a REAL meaning. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/24 "2011-10-17T15:46:43Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Ornstein is not a conservative and “in any real way” seems to leave it open for debate. > > Would you at least agree with that? Come on…throw me a bone here. No. If you aren’t even going to address the substance of his article, there’s no debate here. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/25 "2011-10-17T18:06:58Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Last I heard, “nuclear option” would completely remove the fillibuster. > > Last I saw, that is not what happened. > > So, please use the correct words. They do, in fact, have meaning, much as you’d prefer otherwise. > > -Joe He used the correct words. The same words used in the cited article and many others, not to mention countless news stories on TV. So, perhaps you’d like to now apologize to the OP. It’s the correct thing to do, much as you’d prefer otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/26 "2011-10-17T18:43:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > He used the correct words. The same words used in the cited article and many others, not to mention countless news stories on TV. It’s not what used to be the nuclear option. It is something trivial that conservatives are calling the _nuclear option_. Anything that Dems do is portrayed as outrageous because it sways low-information and ideological voters that the Dems are being evil again. It even worked on you. > [@](#): > > So, perhaps you’d like to now apologize to the OP. It’s the correct thing to do, much as you’d prefer otherwise. It’s not his fault that the OP doesn’t follow news enough to understand what the _nuclear option_ has been until this latest non-issue. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Mikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Da\_Mikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Mikster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/27 "2011-10-17T19:17:00Z")
The solution is not to eliminate the filibuster, but rather to return it to it’s original meaning. A few Senators suddenly having to actually physically stand there on the floor and keep talking again, or end the filibuster, instead of just ‘proclaiming’ one would reduce the use of it considerably… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/28 "2011-10-17T19:27:04Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s not what used to be the nuclear option. It is something trivial that conservatives are calling the _nuclear option_. If the Republicans were the only ones referring to this as the “nuclear option”, you’d have a point. But they’re not, so you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Mikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Da\_Mikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Mikster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/29 "2011-10-17T19:45:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If the Republicans were the only ones referring to this as the “nuclear option”, you’d have a point. But they’re not, so you don’t. So, by your reasoning, if an upset party hack (we’ll leave which party out as irrelevant) picks up a potato and calls it a “turnip”, then the press repeats that it is a turnip, and then folks who don’t know better refer to it as a turnip again… it is now indeed a turnip?.. Strange. How about baked turnips for supper? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/30 "2011-10-17T19:58:44Z")
> [@Da\_Mikster](#): > > So, by your reasoning, if an upset party hack (we’ll leave which party out as irrelevant) picks up a potato and calls it a “turnip”, then the press repeats that it is a turnip, and then folks who don’t know better refer to it as a turnip again… it is now indeed a turnip?.. Strange. I think that’s pretty much how it works. It helps if Rush Limbaugh or Al Gore (depending upon which party) explains it to folks. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/31 "2011-10-17T20:03:59Z")
> [@Da\_Mikster](#): > > So, by your reasoning, if an upset party hack (we’ll leave which party out as irrelevant) picks up a potato and calls it a “turnip”, then the press repeats that it is a turnip, and then folks who don’t know better refer to it as a turnip again… it is now indeed a turnip?.. Strange. > > How about baked turnips for supper? Oh, boy. I’m sure you’re aware that the term is a metaphor, derived from something else else, like the flipping the switch and sending off nuclear warheads. You do know that right? So your analogy fails miserably. And it’s not the OP that decided to use the term, it’s friggin EVERYWHERE. YOU don’t want it used that way, too bad. If you don’t like it _a whole lot_, go complain to virtually every news outlet there is. Sheeze. The shit some of you glom on to… ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/32 "2011-10-17T20:13:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And it’s not the OP that decided to use the term, it’s friggin EVERYWHERE. YOU don’t want it used that way, too bad. If you don’t like it _a whole lot_, go complain to virtually every news outlet there is. There was a whole lot of press coverage of the huge number of shark attacks a few years back, or the plastic guns that are entirely undetectable to airport metal detectors. Sometimes the press gets it wrong. If you were interested in the substance of this issue, you’d be commenting on the expert opinion I linked to earlier. But no, you are in essence saying, “If it is in a newspaper, it MUST be true!!” The problem is, it has been shown that it is not true. And your response seems to be, “But it was in SEVERAL newspapers!!” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/33 "2011-10-17T20:39:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > There was a whole lot of press coverage of the huge number of shark attacks a few years back, or the plastic guns that are entirely undetectable to airport metal detectors. > > Sometimes the press gets it wrong. If you were interested in the substance of this issue, you’d be commenting on the expert opinion I linked to earlier. But no, you are in essence saying, “If it is in a newspaper, it MUST be true!!” > > The problem is, it has been shown that it is not true. And your response seems to be, “But it was in SEVERAL newspapers!!” No. My point is that is a _metaphor_, for some seemingly drastic action being taken. The notion that this is some right-wing conspiracy is nonsense. Or that the OP is responsible for painting things in a way that has been conjured. Here are a few uses of the term referring to what Reid did: [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/\_news/2011/10/07/8205230-congress-floor-fight](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/07/8205230-congress-floor-fight) > **[Harry Reid Makes Bold Move, Triggers 'Nuclear Option'](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/harry-reid-triggers-nuclear-option-filibusters_n_999242)** > > Harry Reid Makes Bold Move, Triggers 'Nuclear Option' > **[Democrats Invoke ‘Nuclear Option’ in Senate](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/gird-your-loins-democrats-invoke-nuclear-option-in-senate/)** > > Get breaking national and world news, broadcast video coverage, and exclusive interviews. Find the top news online at ABC news. [http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/nuclear-option/2011/10/](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/nuclear-option/2011/10/) [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/6/reid-uses-nuclear-option-block-gop-amendments/?page=all](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/6/reid-uses-nuclear-option-block-gop-amendments/?page=all) > **[Congress](https://outsidethebeltway.com/category/us_politics/congress/)** > > Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs Here are some more using the term in a way that has nothing to do with what Reid did, nor what was done back in 2005: > **[NFL Players Invoke Nuclear Option](https://outsidethebeltway.com/nfl-players-invoke-nuclear-option/)** > > No matter how the owners and players resolve their squabble, the fans are likely to get screwed. [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-16/bofa-said-to-keep-bankruptcy-as-option-for-countrywide-unit.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-16/bofa-said-to-keep-bankruptcy-as-option-for-countrywide-unit.html) > **[Wisconsin's Nuclear Option](https://www.thedailybeast.com/wisconsin-union-fight-gov-walkers-nuclear-option/)** > > Gov. Walker can use a little-known but constitutional maneuver to break the impasse over unions’ rights. John Avlon on how Walker can get his way even with Democrats boycotting the vote. [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/the-gops-nuclear-option-on-spe.html](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/morning-fix/the-gops-nuclear-option-on-spe.html) [http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2011/09/16/bank-of-americas-nuclear-option.html](http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/news/2011/09/16/bank-of-americas-nuclear-option.html) > **[Germany contemplates “nuclear option” for Greece](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2011/06/nucl-j29.html)** > > Leading German industrialists and economists are arguing that Greece should either withdraw or be thrown out of the eurozone in order to avoid a breakup of the European Union. [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam\_amick/09/17/nba.labor.decertification/index.html](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/09/17/nba.labor.decertification/index.html) [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/12/durbin-says-democrats-are-considering-mcconnell’s-fallback-option/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/12/durbin-says-democrats-are-considering-mcconnell%E2%80%99s-fallback-option/) [http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/03/wi-gop-uses-nuclear-option-to-jam-through-anti-union-bill/](http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/03/wi-gop-uses-nuclear-option-to-jam-through-anti-union-bill/) The point is that the hyper-sensitive left cannot abide that Reid & Co. might do anything that is “drastic”. That everything must be sound and sensible. And if language—used by the mainstream media—inadvertently does so, well, those wadded panties will cause them to set things straight!!! (as they want them to be). And thenone of the foot soldiers goes after the OP as if he went out of his way to make something up. That’s just chidish bullshit. But, by all means, feel free to join him. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Da\_Mikster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Da\_Mikster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Da_Mikster)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/34 "2011-10-17T20:47:04Z")
Mountains out of molehills much? That particular metaphor is overused almost to the point of triteness. Nothing wrong with pointing out it’s use as unwarranted. Next, changing a baby’s dirty diaper will be called a “nuclear option”… if it generates attention and sells newspapers. Perhaps labelling the baby’s act of filling said diaper might be more apropos? Or at least closer to the use you are defending. Words and phrases have meaning. When they cease to have meaning they should be discarded. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/35 "2011-10-17T20:52:50Z")
> [@Da\_Mikster](#): > > Mountains out of molehills much? That particular metaphor is overused almost to the point of triteness. Nothing wrong with pointing out it’s use as unwarranted. > Next, changing a baby’s dirty diaper will be called a “nuclear option”… if it generates attention and sells newspapers. > > Perhaps labelling the baby’s act of filling said diaper might be more apropos? Or at least closer to the use you are defending. > > Words and phrases have meaning. When they cease to have meaning they should be discarded. It seems that this would be more intelligently directed to those who get in a tizzy about it’s use and go after people for it. I accept that it is a metaphor, one that is used from time to time. I’m not the one whining. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/36 "2011-10-17T21:36:03Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Here are a few uses of the term referring to what Reid did: > [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/\_news/2011/10/07/8205230-congress-floor-fight](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/07/8205230-congress-floor-fight) > > [Reid Triggers 'Nuclear Option' To Change Rules, Prohibit Filibusters | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/06/harry-reid-triggers-nuclear-option-filibusters_n_999242.html) > > [Democrats Invoke ‘Nuclear Option’ in Senate - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/gird-your-loins-democrats-invoke-nuclear-option-in-senate/) > > [2011: The Year In 100 Seconds (VIDEO) - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/nuclear-option/2011/10/) > > [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/6/reid-uses-nuclear-option-block-gop-amendments/?page=all](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/oct/6/reid-uses-nuclear-option-block-gop-amendments/?page=all) > > [Congress – Outside the Beltway](http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/category/us_politics/congress/) _This_ is your response to my comment, quoted below? > [@Ravenman](#): > > And your response seems to be, “But it was in SEVERAL newspapers!!” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/37 "2011-10-17T21:45:52Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > _This_ is your response to my comment, quoted below? No. That was _part_ of my response to your comment. Odd that you couldn’t figure that out for yourself. Hmmm. Oh, well. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/38 "2011-10-18T12:10:19Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > No. If you aren’t even going to address the substance of his article, there’s no debate here. I **do not** have to address the substance of the article to point out that you are wrong about Ornstein being a conservative…get off your high horse and admit that you were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/39 "2011-10-18T23:14:00Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > How is [what Harry Reid did](http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/186133-reid-triggers-nuclear-option-to-change-senate-rules-and-prohibit-post-cloture-filibusters) a week ago different than the maneuver that Republicans threatened in the past? > > Have the rules changed forever now ? How does this belong in the Elections forum? (It’s not for **everything** political.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529/40 "2011-10-19T10:38:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How does this belong in the Elections forum? (It’s not for **everything** political.) You really do want to grow up to be a mod some day don’t you **Brainy G** …where would you like it? When I saw that you posted I thought just maybe you’d demand some intellectual honesty from **Ravenman** … mods need to be fair you know. C’mon **Ravenman** …when you admit that Norman Ornstein is not a conservative (bonus points for explaining how you could be so wrong) I promise I will read his article and comment on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-option/599529.md?page=3)