# nuclear power should abandoned **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335 "2011-11-18T13:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/61 "2011-11-21T23:11:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’re overestimating it. Non-residential usage of electricity is more than twice as high as residential usage. So if you eliminate plasma TV’s it would only reduce the country’s electricity demand by about two percent. Yes, I know I was being overly generous by just assuming residential demand. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/62 "2011-11-22T03:53:13Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Also, good-bye in advance. [/QUOTE] Well, you nailed that prediction right on the head. I don’t think the OP was hearing what s/he wanted to hear. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/63 "2011-11-22T04:32:15Z")
I think we harshed his mellow. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/64 "2011-11-22T04:37:12Z")
Puff puff passed-on-by. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/65 "2011-11-22T08:44:56Z")
> [@celnorvik\_yahoo.com](#): > > If the would cut off their plasma tvs they would cut down 50% on electricity demands. And how much [wooo](http://av.hitachi.co.jp/tv/) would a wooochuck chuck, if a wooochuck could chuck plasmas?\* > [@hdc\_bst](#): > > I agree that that was the original, bad idea. I was just amused that in this case the hysterical ravings did not go far enough to even account for baseline habitability of the islands. No does it account for my continued posting, although that may be just part of the cover up. Although it may explain why I only post on alternative days. \*Of course, Hitachi Wooo are LCDs and not plasmas, which just goes to show how little research was done by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/66 "2011-11-22T09:43:34Z")
You’ll all be sorry you didn’t take the OP more seriously when Godzilla inevitably rises. We’ll need all the hemp just to placate him. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/67 "2011-11-22T11:01:49Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, you nailed that prediction right on the head. I don’t think the OP was hearing what s/he wanted to hear. Judging from their SDMB member page, they don’t appear to have heard anything at all; they just posted the OP and left. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/68 "2011-11-22T13:33:03Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > You’ll all be sorry you didn’t take the OP more seriously when Godzilla inevitably rises. We’ll need all the hemp just to placate him. Six of one, half dozen of the other. You go atomic, you get attacked by Godzilla. You go hemp, it’s Puff the Magic Dragon instead. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/69 "2011-11-22T22:34:15Z")
I wonder if the OP is just a scam to collect email addresses for spamming? They’re hoping that we’ll respond with emails to [celnorvik@yahoo.com](mailto:celnorvik@yahoo.com) calling him a moron and–bam!–you’re on the spammer rolls. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/70 "2011-11-22T22:59:40Z")
As a minor but relevant hijack: I’ve heard that hemp really is a good source of fuel. I heard (no cite, no idea if it’s true) that it’s even a source of petroleum. Grows back fast, grows in a variety of climates, good for fuel… is that all just propaganda or is there some truth to it? Should I start a different thread? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/71 "2011-11-23T10:39:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Wind power is good but it’s limited. You can’t scale in up very far because you need a good location. Same thing with hydroelectric. They’re great for where there’s a natural site but they’re never going to be the primary source for energy. No, but 10-20-30% for windpower is also fine. A nuclear plant produces perhaps 2000-3000MW and takes 10-15 years to construct. Vestas alone currently puts up windmills for 5000-6000MW a year (they’ve recently had to reduce their 7000MW/year target, but will come there probably next year, or the year after). Windmills are shelf-products and are easy and quick to install. You can order 200MW today and have it up and running next year. Older windfarms are easy to remove or update. Nuclear power is great but just a minor element of a future energy production which also includes a substantial percentage of windenergy. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/72 "2011-11-23T12:28:42Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > No, but 10-20-30% for windpower is also fine. A nuclear plant produces perhaps 2000-3000MW and takes 10-15 years to construct. Vestas alone currently puts up windmills for 5000-6000MW a year (they’ve recently had to reduce their 7000MW/year target, but will come there probably next year, or the year after). Windmills are shelf-products and are easy and quick to install. You can order 200MW today and have it up and running next year. Older windfarms are easy to remove or update. Nuclear power is great but just a minor element of a future energy production which also includes a substantial percentage of windenergy. Very nice, bt what’s the power output when the wind ..stops? Zero?:smack: ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/73 "2011-11-23T15:30:29Z")
[QUOTE=Rune] No, but 10-20-30% for windpower is also fine. A nuclear plant produces perhaps 2000-3000MW and takes 10-15 years to construct. Vestas alone currently puts up windmills for 5000-6000MW a year (they’ve recently had to reduce their 7000MW/year target, but will come there probably next year, or the year after). Windmills are shelf-products and are easy and quick to install. You can order 200MW today and have it up and running next year. Older windfarms are easy to remove or update. Nuclear power is great but just a minor element of a future energy production which also includes a substantial percentage of windenergy. [/QUOTE] Do you have cites for any of this? Let’s say a cite that shows that a nuclear power plant takes on average 10-15 years to construct, that there is a company that is putting up 5000-6000MW per year (and what’s the cost of that??) and that any large country can get to 10, 20 or 30% of their total electrical generation from wind in any sort of realistic time frame? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/74 "2011-11-23T17:53:32Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Do you have cites for any of this? Let’s say a cite that shows that a nuclear power plant takes on average 10-15 years to construct, that there is a company that is putting up 5000-6000MW per year (and what’s the cost of that??) and that any large country can get to 10, 20 or 30% of their total electrical generation from wind in any sort of realistic time frame? > > -XT > [@](#): > > The intake of firm and unconditional orders for the year is expected to be 7,000-8,000 MW. [Vestas: Outlook for 2011](http://www.vestas.com/en/annual-report-2010/editorial/overview/outlook-for-2011.aspx) - but as I said, they’ve had to revise those goals down a bit. According to Wiki Vestas has produced more than 40GW in its lifetime. I took the nuclear numbers from the nuclear power plant at Olkiluoto in Finland which with the current construction of a 1,600MW reactor is the most recent nuclear plant being constructed in Scandinavia. The new reactor will supplement the two 860MW reactors already operational at the same plant = 3320MW. The new reactor was started in 2000 and expected to be completed in 2014 = 14 years. I don’t know if there is an average that makes any sense for a thing being made so rarely. Windpower provide around 20% of electricity in Denmark and Denmark is not particular suited for wind power since it is heavily populated. Although it has a fair about of sea to construct off shore wind farms at. The wind power is also rising much faster than the overall energy consumption so the percentage is expected to grow. In addition the generation of wind mills being made today are much cheaper per mw than previous generations, so if Denmark could make it to 20% with older technology other nations should be able to do the same much easier with newer technology. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/75 "2011-11-23T18:41:01Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The new reactor was started in 2000 and expected to be completed in 2014 = 14 years. Construction started in 2000? Or is that when the permitting process started? What about permitting delays for wind farms? There have already been a number of permitting problems related to some high profile proposals, and one can surmise that as wind farms become more and more prevalent delays will increase as more and more NIMBY protests result. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/76 "2011-11-24T05:05:15Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > As a minor but relevant hijack: I’ve heard that hemp really is a good source of fuel. I heard (no cite, no idea if it’s true) that it’s even a source of petroleum. Grows back fast, grows in a variety of climates, good for fuel… is that all just propaganda or is there some truth to it? Should I start a different thread? Hemp is just one of many herbaceous biomass crops which can be used directly as a fuel in combustion, or can be converted to ethanol via cellolusic processes, or have all sorts of things extracted from it. The problem is, there are better crops to grow and better crop residues to collect which we already have (like corn stover). I’ve performed formal studies on hemp grown in Canada, the Caribbean, SE Asia, and Africa. In each case there were better crops available. That’s not to say hemp couldn’t be useful as such, just that it’s not necessarily the best crop for this purpose. Soil conditions, climate, insolation over the year, water, distance to salt water, etc. all influence which is the best choice. All herbaceous biomasses have pluses and minuses associated within their group, and when compared to woody biomasses. It’s a huge subject and any simplistic answer, including from me, is suspect as there is a wide variability in green and processed fuel properties. I could write a book on it. Actually, I wrote 2… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/77 "2011-11-24T13:20:56Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I vote for amending the second law of thermodynamics to allow energy producing perpetual motion. Yes, and while we’re at it, let’s amend the law of gravity so that we can all fly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/78 "2011-11-24T13:49:28Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Not coal, bio-fuel ; but yeah, that’s their plan. Replacing their big centralized nuclear power plants with lots of smaller ones that would power small areas using bio-fuel produced locally (from crops, woodchippings, domestic garbage, etc…). Germany has been putting forward plans for BACT coal plants since 2008, and as recently as this summer was drawing fire for proposing up to 17 GW of coal and gas generation. [http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110629-711568.html](http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110629-711568.html) I’m working on a couple of large coal power projects planned for Germany, and I can assure you that the government and industry players are serious about this. Germany is going to dramatically increasing its GHG emissions as a result of this proposed new generation. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335/79 "2011-11-24T17:19:18Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Hemp is just one of many herbaceous biomass crops which can be used directly as a fuel in combustion, or can be converted to ethanol via cellolusic processes, or have all sorts of things extracted from it.[snip] Thank you for the informative post! I admit I have only ever heard vague rumors in the past. Good to get some facts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power-should-abandoned/603335.md?page=3)