# Nuclear Power **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035 "2008-10-29T02:56:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/261 "2009-02-27T03:35:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We do store it there, and we did choose to store it there. You seem to be confused by the fact that it would be much more expensive to store it anywhere else, but we could have routed the exhaust into huge underground tanks or the like. We chose not to do that, because it cost a fortune, but we did make that choice. Somebody need to do this back of the envelope calc. How much would it cost in high pressue tankage to store all the CO2 produced per person per year? How much space would that take up? How many thousands of years would that tank last or not last? Assume a typical scuba tank holds roughly 10 pounds of CO2 and cost 10 dollars wholesale. Go/scale from there. I am sure the numbers will be ungodly. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/262 "2009-02-27T03:35:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How’s this for a reason? Nevada should get the nuclear waste because that’s the best place for it, just like you got Hoover Dam because you’re the best place for that, too. > > And it’s not like you even really have a say in the decision: Yucca Mountain is on land owned by the federal government, which makes it the federal government’s say as to how that land gets used. And I’ll bet that if you look into the history of how that land came under federal government control, you’ll find a duly-elected Nevada senator who _wanted_ it to be put to federal use, to bring money into the state. Aaaaaaand how is it that I, a citizen of the United States, have no say in what _my_ government does? I most certainly have a say in what my government does. That’s the whole point of this country. > [@](#): > > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, **deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed** , That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/263 "2009-02-27T03:40:26Z")
[QUOTE=Snowboarder Bo] Aaaaaaand how is it that I, a citizen of the United States, have no say in what my government does? [/QUOTE] You missed the whole democracy thingy obviously. You, as a citizen, certainly have some say. Nevada, as a state, also has some say. However, since you aren’t a god king and since Nevada isn’t a sovereign state, in the end you have to bow to the will of the majority…or at least to the will of the representatives of the majority. It also helps that there have been Nevada representatives who have supported bringing in all those juicy Federal dollars to your state in the past. > [@](#): > > I most certainly have a say in what my government does. That’s the whole point of this country. Sure you do. No one denies it. But then, most folks realize that this doesn’t necessarily mean they get their way. Ask the Republican conservative types how THEY are feeling atm about ‘their’ government…or consider how you and others on this board felt about Bush et al and his merry band. Did you approve of Iraq for instance? No? Me either. Yet we still seem to be there. Get it? -XT ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/264 "2009-02-27T03:42:07Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I don’t drink. Coulda fooled me. Do you absorb water from the air too? How’s the rest of the alternate energy zero polluting lifestyle going out there in NV? You never told us why you think Nuclear is soooo bad. Besides the fact you don’t want the waste there. Which, by the way, ISNT an argument against nuclear. Its just a statement you dont want nuclear waste there. And then, you’ve never really explained why nuclear waste is sooo bad or not soo bad, because you’ve never really been clear on your position on that one as well. Are you going to actually argue a point or make one or give us some facts or figures to dispute our pro nuke claims? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/265 "2009-02-27T03:42:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And it’s not like you even really have a say in the decision: Yucca Mountain is on land owned by the federal government, which makes it the federal government’s say as to how that land gets used. And I’ll bet that if you look into the history of how that land came under federal government control, you’ll find a duly-elected Nevada senator who _wanted_ it to be put to federal use, to bring money into the state. I’ll take that bet. What’s the amount you’re willing to wager? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/266 "2009-02-27T03:59:37Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You missed the whole democracy thingy obviously. You, as a citizen, certainly have some say. Nevada, as a state, also has some say. However, since you aren’t a god king and since Nevada isn’t a sovereign state, in the end you have to bow to the will of the majority…or at least to the will of the representatives of the majority. It also helps that there have been Nevada representatives who have supported bringing in all those juicy Federal dollars to your state in the past. So do I have a say or don’t I? Chronos says I don’t. You say I do, but then you say I don’t. I say I do, and I’m saying I (and the vast majority of Nevadans) don’t want the waste. Oh wait, now you say (again) that I do. > [@](#): > > Sure you do. No one denies it. But then, most folks realize that this doesn’t necessarily mean they get their way. Ask the Republican conservative types how THEY are feeling atm about ‘their’ government…or consider how you and others on this board felt about Bush et al and his merry band. Did you approve of Iraq for instance? No? Me either. Yet we still seem to be there. > > Get it? > > -XT Well, in this case it seems to be you that isn’t going to get his way. Too bad for you. I guess you didn’t have the slam-dunk case you thought, did you? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/267 "2009-02-27T04:01:55Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Coulda fooled me. > > Do you absorb water from the air too? > > How’s the rest of the alternate energy zero polluting lifestyle going out there in NV? > > You never told us why you think Nuclear is soooo bad. Besides the fact you don’t want the waste there. Which, by the way, ISNT an argument against nuclear. Its just a statement you dont want nuclear waste there. > > And then, you’ve never really explained why nuclear waste is sooo bad or not soo bad, because you’ve never really been clear on your position on that one as well. > > Are you going to actually argue a point or make one or give us some facts or figures to dispute our pro nuke claims? If nuclear wasn’t bad, no one would care where it was stored. I can’t believe that anyone would need an explanation of why nuclear waste is bad. If you don’t think it’s bad, go build yourself a house out of spent fuel rods. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/268 "2009-02-27T04:06:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > You missed the whole democracy thingy obviously. You, as a citizen, certainly have some say. Nevada, as a state, also has some say. However, since you aren’t a god king and since Nevada isn’t a sovereign state, in the end you have to bow to the will of the majority…or at least to the will of the representatives of the majority. Actually, Nevada, like all states in the USA, **is** a sovereign state. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/269 "2009-02-27T04:09:39Z")
Lost cause guys. He’s just NIMBYing. Move on to discuss more interesting things about this topic. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/270 "2009-02-27T04:09:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If nuclear wasn’t bad, no one would care where it was stored. I can’t believe that anyone would need an explanation of why nuclear waste is bad. If you don’t think it’s bad, go build yourself a house out of spent fuel rods. Have fun. But wait, werent you the guy who couldnt figure out why we needed a safe, dedicated, engineered, secure, and environmentally sensical storage site? Which is it? Do we need a special site for this voodoo waste or can we just keep it in kiddy pools around the nation? Seriously, WHICH IS IT? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/271 "2009-02-27T04:12:02Z")
Let me rephrase that: Of course you have a say. So do I, and so does **xtisme** , and so does everyone else in the country. But you don’t have any more say than anyone else. If the people of the United States, and our elected representatives, decide that Nevada is the right place to put nuclear waste, then that’s the way it’s going to be, and if you don’t like it, tough. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/272 "2009-02-27T04:14:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > So do I have a say or don’t I? Chronos says I don’t. You say I do, but then you say I don’t. I say I do, and I’m saying I (and the vast majority of Nevadans) don’t want the waste. Oh wait, now you say (again) that I do. You have a “say”. Say does NOT equal getting what you want. Plenty of folks SAID they didnt want Obama as president. Guess who is now president? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/273 "2009-02-27T04:22:26Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > But wait, werent you the guy who couldnt figure out why we needed a safe, dedicated, engineered, secure, and environmentally sensical storage site? > > Which is it? > > Do we need a special site for this voodoo waste or can we just keep it in kiddy pools around the nation? > > Seriously, WHICH IS IT? Like many people here, you are attributing things to me which I never said. Is this some new debate technique? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/274 "2009-02-27T04:25:35Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > You have a “say”. Say does NOT equal getting what you want. Plenty of folks SAID they didnt want Obama as president. Guess who is now president? I never said I should get what I want, just because I want it. Never implied it, either. But guess what? In this case, it looks like I am getting what I want. I guess your arguments and “facts” just weren’t convincing enough. Too bad for you. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/275 "2009-02-27T04:30:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Like many people here, you are attributing things to me which I never said. Is this some new debate technique? I didnt attribute anything to you there. I asked you a simple question. Which you apparently neither want to answer or expound upon. Grog think nuclear waste bad. Grog not know why. Grog not like nuclear waste. Grog not want nuclear waste in Grog’s cave. Grog angry and confused. Would Grog like to better inform us as to Grog’s actual point? Seriously, if Grog isnt going to make an actual point, ask a factual question, post some facts or something substantive, this here Bubba is going to ignore Grog. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/276 "2009-02-27T04:31:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Let me rephrase that: Of course you have a say. So do I, and so does **xtisme** , and so does everyone else in the country. But you don’t have any more say than anyone else. If the people of the United States, and our elected representatives, decide that Nevada is the right place to put nuclear waste, then that’s the way it’s going to be, and if you don’t like it, tough. I know that this is a summary of things, but it doesn’t accurately reflect the way that the US works. Fortunately, we don’t make all decisions based solely on majority rule. > [@Chronos](#): > > And I’ll bet that if you look into the history of how that land came under federal government control, you’ll find a duly-elected Nevada senator who wanted it to be put to federal use, to bring money into the state. Still waiting to know what amount you are willing to wager here. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/277 "2009-02-27T04:39:13Z")
Ok…this is just getting silly. [QUOTE=Snowboarder Bo] Still waiting to know what amount you are willing to wager here. [/QUOTE] One billion dollars (in a Dr. Evil voice with pinky raised). > [@](#): > > Nuclear repository at Yucca Mountain > > Jim Gibbons approved a plan to let the U.S. Department of Energy use the state’s water to explore the planned Yucca Mountain nuclear waste site.[59] According to the Las Vegas Sun, “Neither Gibbons nor his aides have offered public explanations for the governor’s perplexing moves. In particular, they have not explained how giving federal authorities more time to build a case for Yucca Mountain or appointing a Yucca advocate to the nuclear projects board could possibly be interpreted as being in line with the state’s opposition to the plan.”[60] Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) said “this amounts to surrendering in Nevada’s decades-long fight against the project.”[61] Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV) said “This demonstrates to me that he either doesn’t know what he’s doing or he’s reversed his position.”[62] I’ll take it in small, unmarked bills. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/278 "2009-02-27T05:15:08Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Ok…this is just getting silly. > > One billion dollars (in a Dr. Evil voice with pinky raised). > > I’ll take it in small, unmarked bills. > > -XT You lose. I don’t even need to see the link you didn’t provide. First, Jim Gibbons is our current governor, not a senator. Second, he didn’t give away or sell any land to the federal government. With all the facts you got wrong here, including not understanding the terms of a one sentence wager proposed by Chronos (you weren’t even a part of it), it isn’t surprising to me that you have so much else wrong in your posts. **Chronos** , how much will you wager? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/279 "2009-02-27T05:25:40Z")
Go back and re-read what he said. And with this further silly divergence I think I’ll call it a night. -XT ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035/280 "2009-02-27T05:28:38Z")
Bo, if they decided the best place to store the stuff was out in Wyoming, would you be as vehemently opposed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nuclear-power/470035.md?page=15)