# "Numbers" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 1, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686 "2006-03-01T23:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/21 "2006-03-02T15:17:20Z")
I know most of the math is probably a stretch, but as most folks will admit, I don’t know enough about math to actually KNOW what’s bullshit and what’s right. I watch it because I like the fact that they’re talking about something a little more stimulating than whether or not the perky middle-child can get her bellybutton pierced. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/22 "2006-03-02T16:13:47Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > Just curious, **Mathochist** , do you agree with me (and Exapno) that the first season tried to hook to some sort of reality, but the second season is pretty much pure technobabble? It was better, yes, and now it’s primarily words rather than any real ideas. > [@](#): > > I didn’t mean to compare math to mining, although that’s certainly what I said. I mean “dilithium crystals” as a technobabble that infused the physics and astronomy of STAR TREK. Just to be clear, that’s what I took it as. My point was that there’s no pretense in Star Trek that (their version of) dilithium crystals are at all real, while the marketing and posturing of NUMB3RS is that this is mathematics, when it’s barely a relative. I think that’s dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/23 "2006-03-02T16:17:13Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > Ugh, and at the end of the first season, was it, when everybody was like “Ooooooh, your grad student liiiiiiikes yooooooooooo! You should daaaaate her!” I was like What. The. Fuck. I mean, to Charlie’s credit, he didn’t, but I couldn’t beleive nobody was saying, “Um, hello, he’s her THESIS ADVISOR? Can you say completely inappropriate!?” And then she switched to a different advisor, and suddenly it’s open season!? Um, NO? Still incredibly sketchy! Not like it doesn’t happen, but it shouldn’t be touted as acceptable behaviour! Actually, sketchy or not, it happens quite a bit. Possibly more often in math than other fields, but I don’t know for sure. And if you allow prof/grad student in general rather than just advisor/student… all the freakin’ time. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/24 "2006-03-02T16:23:00Z")
When I saw the thread title, I thought this would be a Kraftwerk discussion. When discussing the TV show, us TV junkies usually write it as _NUMB3RS_. Nothing else, just helping out in my own large way. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/25 "2006-03-02T18:59:29Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > Ugh, and at the end of the first season, was it, when everybody was like “Ooooooh, your grad student liiiiiiikes yooooooooooo! You should daaaaate her!” I was like What. The. Fuck. I mean, to Charlie’s credit, he didn’t, but I couldn’t beleive nobody was saying, “Um, hello, he’s her THESIS ADVISOR? Can you say completely inappropriate!?” And then she switched to a different advisor, and suddenly it’s open season!? Um, NO? Still incredibly sketchy! Not like it doesn’t happen, but it shouldn’t be touted as acceptable behaviour! No, because that’s not quite what happened. She _finished_ her dissertation, got her Ph.D. and _started a new Ph.D._ with a different set of advisors. This makes it acceptable, as far as I can tell. But you’re right that nobody should have been touting dates with her the first season. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/26 "2006-03-02T19:41:00Z")
> [@EM](#): > > She finished her dissertation, got her Ph.D. and started a new Ph.D. with a different set of advisors. :eek: This woman is clearly out of her freaking mind. **Nobody** should date her, it’s just not safe. – Kimstu (PhD '95. **One** PhD. **Never** going through that again.) ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/27 "2006-03-02T19:47:18Z")
First of all, the important stuff: Everyone was pushing him to date the grad student out of a desire to do exactly that – I mean, heck, I wanted to date her, but he had a shot. (okay, sorry). Numb3rs is to math what Fame is to show business (only more so). No one expects it to be real outside the context of the imaginary show. (at least I hope not). The fake math was fun the first season (and made for some interesting visuals), but has become less so this season. The real heart of the show is the family dynamic between father-sons and brothers. In fact the quality of the actors and their performances easily overshadows everything else involved (writing, directing, etc.). These guys are great, just great together–and are clearly enjoying the work. The loss of Sabrina Lloyd is also something they’re dealing with this season. The replacement female sidekick just isn’t cutting it with me. I watch the show. I miss the show. I don’t worry about whether or not the show will be renewed. I don’t believe a word of their science. But, I do enjoy it in a, let me pull this mathematical rabbit out of my @$$ kind of way. And the performances. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/28 "2006-03-02T19:49:20Z")
This is one of the stupidest shows I’ve seen. If any of the math was good, don’t you think real cops would be using it right now? I, too, cringe at some of the pronunciations. I’m sure they have real mathematicians as advisors. How hard is it to pronounce the words correctly? It’s like the old cartoon of the mathematician who has this huge equation on the board, but ultimately says “and then a miracle happens” and then writes his conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/29 "2006-03-02T20:21:47Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > It’s like the old cartoon of the mathematician who has this huge equation on the board, but ultimately says “and then a miracle happens” and then writes his conclusion. I’ve always assumed that it was physics. And in that sense, it is exactly how equations are solved. (Ok, maybe not eactly, but the phrase “hand-waving argument” comes to mind.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/30 "2006-03-02T20:56:52Z")
> [@ddgryphon](#): > > The real heart of the show is the family dynamic between father-sons and brothers. In fact the quality of the actors and their performances easily overshadows everything else involved (writing, directing, etc.). These guys are great, just great together–and are clearly enjoying the work. I dunno, Judd Hirsch’s relentless chicken-soup-for-the-soul wisdom got on my nerves. “You think maybe a big brain guy like you shouldn’t be such a schmuck and give the nice pretty lady a call? I should get cancer and drop dead before I see you do that? OY!” ;j ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/31 "2006-03-02T21:31:43Z")
I’ve only ever watched one episode, but this thread is giving me the opportunity to snicker at what I thought was particularly lame: Math guy tells three different men, his colleague, his brother, and his father, that he consulted for the NSA in the recent past. He is not coy about this, he comes straight out and tells them that. He almost brags. Yet when his attractive female colleague?student? asks him where he learned how to do that thing he did, he says, “I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you.” And she says, “No, really.” And he nods meaningfully. What a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![ddgryphon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8c91f0/32.png) [@ddgryphon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ddgryphon)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/32 "2006-03-02T21:59:38Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I dunno, Judd Hirsch’s relentless chicken-soup-for-the-soul wisdom got on my nerves. “You think maybe a big brain guy like you shouldn’t be such a schmuck and give the nice pretty lady a call? I should get cancer and drop dead before I see you do that? OY!” > > ;j Doesn’t it make you long for someone to make you Kreplach and tuck you in while pinching your cheek? ;j ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/33 "2006-03-02T22:16:21Z")
> [@JustAnotherGeek](#): > > I’ve always assumed that it was physics. And in that sense, it is exactly how equations are solved. > > (Ok, maybe not eactly, but the phrase “hand-waving argument” comes to mind.) You could be right, although I’m sure there are lots of variations of that cartoon floating around. Same dif. I’ll do a Fourier analysis of the internet and see if I can figure it out. But I might have to subcategorize the hoojamadingits first. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/34 "2006-03-02T22:19:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > This is one of the stupidest shows I’ve seen. If any of the math was good, don’t you think real cops would be using it right now? I, too, cringe at some of the pronunciations. I’m sure they have real mathematicians as advisors. How hard is it to pronounce the words correctly? It’s like the old cartoon of the mathematician who has this huge equation on the board, but ultimately says “and then a miracle happens” and then writes his conclusion. What makes you think that real cops aren’t using techniques like this? I’m sure they are, but that they don’t work as neatly and quickly as they do in this show. Or that they have the magic software that allows him to dump hard copy files into in a matter of seconds. That cartoon, BTW, is by Sidney Harris, the greatest cartoonist on science that ever was. Check out his [site](http://www.sciencecartoonsplus.com/) and his [cartoon gallery](http://www.sciencecartoonsplus.com/gallery.htm) which uses “then a miracle occurs” as its logo. The actual caption is “I think you should be more explicit here in step two.” ---
**Author:** ![audiobottle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@audiobottle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audiobottle)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/35 "2006-03-03T03:29:20Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > In one episode Charlie announced that he had solved some problem or another through “FOR-ee’-er” analysis. He went on to explain that he had analyzed the frequencies present in the data and . . . > > :smack: Fourier. It’s pronounced fo(r)-YAY. Strange, during my time getting my BS in electrical engineering (where I heard Fourier… well, a LOT) at the University of Michigan, I never once heard anybody pronounce it for-YAY. Always like you said he did earlier: FOR-ee-er. That’s still the way I pronouce it now. Maybe the correct French way is for-YAY, but I think that FOR-ee-er is not going to get you laughed out of the building, or even a strange look. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/36 "2006-03-03T03:53:35Z")
I can’t figure out how to express the characters in this text box, but if you go to [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) for [Fourier](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fourier) you’ll see both pronunciations. FWIW, when I was in college I always heard the first, fur’-ee-ay, pronunciation and never the second, foo-ray’, one. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/37 "2006-03-03T15:06:32Z")
Okay, I’ll concede the pronunciation. I’ve never heard anyone, other than a student sounding it out for the first time, only to be gently corrected, pronounce the ‘r’ on the end, but I suppose we have heaped greater indiginities on the French. 🙂 As for professors dating their thesis students, I have only one thing to say: EW to the infinite power. Ew ew ew ew ew ew ew . . . ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/38 "2006-03-03T19:10:35Z")
> [@ddgryphon](#): > > The real heart of the show is the family dynamic between father-sons and brothers. In fact the quality of the actors and their performances easily overshadows everything else involved (writing, directing, etc.). These guys are great, just great together–and are clearly enjoying the work. I find it interesting that when Charlie gets a call on his phone, he answers politely (“Hello?”), whereas Don always seems to be very perfunctory, and always answers his phone with, “Eppes!” The two brothers _do_ have different personalities, don’t they? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686/39 "2006-03-03T20:20:46Z")
> [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > Second season has been much more “magic” and much less math. Yeah, but they also got rid of Sabrina Lloyd (the future-Mrs. Factotum). I don’t think I’ve seen more than one whole episdoe 2nd season, where I saw all of the first season. I don’t dislike Diane Farr, but I really enjoyed seeing Ms. Lloyd every week again. I wasn’t overwhelmed by the math, but found it an interesting tool to move the stories along. I’ve got enough math and statistics training to realize that they were oversimplifying for the sake of the plot, but I allowed for it for the entertainment value. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numbers/346686.md?page=1)