# Numismatic question: "double-die" coins **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 25, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196 "2005-12-25T23:18:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/1 "2005-12-25T23:18:16Z")
In a “double-die” coin, I assume the doubling exists in the die itself, as opposed to a “double-struck” coin, which would be a unique occurrence. But how can only part of the coin be doubled, e.g. certain letters or words, and not the rest? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/2 "2005-12-25T23:34:50Z")
I have forgotten the vocabulary for what each element of the process is termed, but the reason for “double-die” coins is in fact in the die, not the double-strike of the coin (just as you assume). The process is that the engraver graves the design in normal relief in a very hard metal, which then is used to put the design in intaglio (reversed relief) into the die itself (one of the diemaking widgets being used to make hundreds or thousands of dies. Occasionally in this process the diemaking widget will either strike the same die twice or slip as the image is impressed into the die, resulting in the “double-die” effect. If the die is not caught in quality control, it will then be used to strike coins, which appear to have been struck twice. The distinction would be that there will be either only one double-struck coin with a given “effect” (i.e., two Abe Lincolns, at 55 degrees to each other), while the die with a double image will be used to produce a large number of “double-die” coins with an identical “effect.” ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/3 "2005-12-26T02:05:01Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > In a “double-die” coin, I assume the doubling exists in the die itself, as opposed to a “double-struck” coin, which would be a unique occurrence. But how can only part of the coin be doubled, e.g. certain letters or words, and not the rest? Double die, double struck, and other coin anamolies harldly ever make it out the door. Quality control is on every employee’s mind. I heard a story some years ago about the “count” on production quarters was a ‘bit’ shy of the accounting records. It took some time till securityofficials determined that the man refilling the cold drink machines was carrying them out when he serviced the machines. He and employee confederate were acosted, hustled out quietly and quickly to a lifetime of liesure in crowbar hotel sans trial. (Condition of employment.) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/4 "2005-12-26T03:19:38Z")
Actually, coin errors make it out the door all the time. Always have. Legally. Given the high speed of coining, they get fed into the bags which leave the mint. A double die occurs when they are making a “working die” from a master die. The process of making a “working die” is to strike it repeatedly(lots) with the master die. There is supposedly a groove(the best way I can explain it) in the press, and the die fits in that groove in a fixed way. But if part way through the repetitive striking process the master die moves a slight bit, it then continues to make an image that is very slightly off from the first strike. While every part of the design is slightly doubled, it is most evident the farther you go towards the rim of the coin. Since the date is usually towards the edge, it sometimes shows up there(most desireable) and sometimes in the legends(In God We Trust, Liberty, etc. It can occur on the obverse(front) of the coin(the most desireable) or on the reverse. The classic double die is the 1955/1955 cent. [http://www.coinsite.com/content/faq/1955dd.asp](http://www.coinsite.com/content/faq/1955dd.asp) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/5 "2005-12-26T03:21:44Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > He and employee confederate were acosted, hustled out quietly and quickly to a lifetime of liesure in crowbar hotel sans trial. (Condition of employment.) I don’t understand that statement. Are you saying they were imprisoned without a trial? What country? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/6 "2005-12-26T03:50:22Z")
> [@spingears](#): > > I heard a story some years ago about the “count” on production quarters was a ‘bit’ shy of the accounting records. It took some time till securityofficials determined that the man refilling the cold drink machines was carrying them out when he serviced the machines. He and employee confederate were acosted, hustled out quietly and quickly to a lifetime of liesure in crowbar hotel sans trial. (Condition of employment.) Sounds like urban legend material to me. No “condition of employment,” even with an agency of the federal government, can override one’s right to due process in criminal proceedings. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/7 "2005-12-26T04:58:01Z")
**Samclem** ’s example brings up an issue tangentially related to this: there were coins in the past where, for one reason or another, the dies for the previous year were reused, by overstriking the year on the date with the new year. An example is the “Mercury” dime dated 1942 over 1941, shown [here](http://www.silverstatecoin.com/invpics/03-0086a.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/8 "2005-12-26T04:59:44Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > tThe classic double die is the 1955/1955 cent. [http://www.coinsite.com/content/faq/1955dd.asp](http://www.coinsite.com/content/faq/1955dd.asp) In this example, why is there no apparent doubling in the extremities of Lincoln’s portrait? And why don’t the doubled strikes obliterate or blur the original strikes? ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/9 "2005-12-26T15:05:50Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > I don’t understand that statement. Are you saying they were imprisoned without a trial? What country? Yes, at least that is the story as it was related to me. Perhaps it was just a story to put fear of malfeasance into the minds of other employees of The Mint lest they fall into temptation. The two were never hear of or from after their swift removal from the premises. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/numismatic-question-double-die-coins/337196/10 "2005-12-27T01:55:54Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > In this example, why is there no apparent doubling in the extremities of Lincoln’s portrait? And why don’t the doubled strikes obliterate or blur the original strikes? I can answer the first part–imagine that you rotate that die a quarter of an inch at the _outside_ edge of the die. But the design part(lincoln) which is closer to the inside of the “circle” will only rotate a fraction of that distance. So Lincoln is doubled, but it’s not as evident. Does that help? As to the second part, I’ll have to read my book on die making. At work. Tomorrow. My guess is that it does to an extent blunt the first impression. But doesn’t obliterate it. Good question.