# Nut With Gun at Town Hall **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377 "2009-08-14T03:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/181 "2009-08-17T03:46:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Can you think of a good, solid, logical reason Americans would feel the need to be armed, when others don’t? Who are we afraid of, if not each other? Maybe it’s not fear so much as a feeling that violence is, to some degree anyway, a fact of life. Sen. Jim Webb, in his book [Born Fighting,](http://books.google.com/books?id=bV_oMj2qQwsC&dq=%22born+fighting%22&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=ydKIStybLYaPtgeqmNjnDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false) argues that we owe much of our fundamental idea of “Americanness” to (his own) Scots-Irish cultural values as brought over by early immigrants. Webb states frankly that that culture was pretty much built around the free use of deadly force. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/182 "2009-08-17T03:49:03Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > You posted a statement that made it clear you think there are no guns in your bar. I asked how you know that. Your level of comfort is a delusion. It’s not specifically outlawed and unless everyone is nude or you have x-ray specs there’s no way you could know that nobody is packing. It took me a moment to read between the lines, but I see what you’re getting at, and I agree. The time has come for all bars to enforce a nude-only dress code for their patrons. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/183 "2009-08-17T03:58:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But what about the other question, the one you seem to ignore. In countries where its neither legal nor customary to go about armed, you think they miss it? Think they just agitate for the chance to strap on? I couldn’t possibly give a shit what people in other countries think. > [@elucidator](#): > > Can you think of a good, solid, logical reason Americans would feel the need to be armed, when others don’t? They’re willing to put up with more bullshit than we are? They like to be victims? They’re a bunch of pussies? They allowed their government to disarm them so long ago they don’t realize the freedom they’re missing? I couldn’t possibly give a shit what people in other countries think. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/184 "2009-08-17T04:04:50Z")
I ask for a reason and you give me belligerent jingoism, with a dash of macho-man sauce? Hey, if it works for you, _muzzle tov_! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/185 "2009-08-17T04:05:20Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I couldn’t possibly give a shit what people in other countries think. This automatically renders your opinions on any matter so much drivel. Do you care what people in other states think? How about other counties? Other cities? Other neighborhoods? Other houses? How about just plain other people? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/186 "2009-08-17T04:11:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I ask for a reason and you give me belligerent jingoism, with a dash of macho-man sauce? Hey, if it works for you, _muzzle tov_! Yes, yes I did. Because instead of answering the questions posed to you, you insist that your ridiculous question be answered. How would I possible know what people in other cultures think about bearing arms? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/187 "2009-08-17T04:22:49Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > How would I possibly know what people in other cultures think about bearing arms? Fact is, I don’t know the answer to this any more than you know if someone is or isn’t carrying a gun in your favorite bar. Difference is, I have the integrity to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/188 "2009-08-17T04:22:56Z")
Ask them? No, wait, crazy idea, that would be too weird… But you’ve answered my question entirely, I know exactly what you think on the subject, there is no lingering question about your position. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/189 "2009-08-17T04:31:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Now I live in the People’s Republic of Minnesota. When I go to a bar here, the odds are good there is no one within twenty yards of me carrying a gun. I find that soothing. And you know this, how? You ask everyone that comes in if they’re armed? You’re right, that is too weird. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/190 "2009-08-17T10:15:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This automatically renders your opinions on any matter so much drivel. > > Do you care what people in other states think? How about other counties? Other cities? Other neighborhoods? Other houses? How about just plain other people? The answer to your question, frankly, is no. Do they ask me for permission to do anything? No, they don’t. As long as they are doing nothing illegal, it doesn’t matter to me (and shouldn’t matter to you) what they do. Why, precisely, do you hold me to a higher standard when I have done nothing but obey the law assiduously? It is for that reason that you get angry responses from people. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again here, we do not owe you any justification, any more than you owe us a justification for anything that you do, so stop asking for one. ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/191 "2009-08-17T12:03:21Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I couldn’t possibly give a shit what people in other countries think. > > They’re willing to put up with more bullshit than we are? > They like to be victims? > They’re a bunch of pussies? > They allowed their government to disarm them so long ago they don’t realize the freedom they’re missing? > > I couldn’t possibly give a shit what people in other countries think. …and they said John Wayne was dead. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/192 "2009-08-17T13:33:29Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > The answer to your question, frankly, is no. Do they ask me for permission to do anything? No, they don’t. As long as they are doing nothing illegal, it doesn’t matter to me (and shouldn’t matter to you) what they do. Who said anything about asking for permission? We’re talking about societal norms. ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/193 "2009-08-17T14:27:39Z")
> [@](#): > > But what about the other question, the one you seem to ignore. In countries where its neither legal nor customary to go about armed, you think they miss it? Think they just agitate for the chance to strap on? Or is it, like I suggested, they think we’re crazy in our firearm obsession? > > Can you think of a good, solid, logical reason Americans would feel the need to be armed, when others don’t? Who are we afraid of, if not each other? The fact is that other countries have different expectations and ideas of what freedoms they need or want. The US is generally better on freedom of speech and expression issues then some of the EU countries. For example Germany had been making some imho wrong decisions lately. And France’s attempt to ban Muslim headdress would never fly over here hopefully. On the other hand their social safety nets are much better then ours and if you believe healthcare is a right they have been kicking our ass all over the place for years with that. > [@](#): > > This automatically renders your opinions on any matter so much drivel. > > Do you care what people in other states think? How about other counties? Other cities? Other neighborhoods? Other houses? How about just plain other people? > I ask for a reason and you give me belligerent jingoism, with a dash of macho-man sauce? Hey, if it works for you, muzzle tov! This is silly. My state passes laws all of the time without holding a conference with other states to check with them. Their are some trade issues or border issues that of course effect more then one state and so a consensus should be made. I can’t see how that gun ownership in the U.S. affects any of the EU countries. As such they are free to say what they want, but their opinions do not matter when it comes to law. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/194 "2009-08-17T15:01:01Z")
My question has a much more modest intent. Simply put, it might be wise to consider if they could be right about us. If you examine the situation and decide that them Yurpeens only say that because they are a bunch of effeminate pansies who are jealous of our virile and manly gun culture, well, I’d have to say that’s a valid point. One hardly ever sees “truck nuts” on a Volvo or a Peugeot, so clearly they are culturally backward pussies. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/195 "2009-08-17T17:11:21Z")
> [@Jettboy](#): > > …and they said John Wayne was dead. You are aware that my answer was sarcasm. It got popular in big cities in the 50’s and didn’t seem to catch on in Podunk. > [@elucidator](#): > > My question Why don’t you answer the question put to you first? > [@elucidator](#): > > Now I live in the People’s Republic of Minnesota. When I go to a bar here, the odds are good there is no one within twenty yards of me carrying a gun. I find that soothing. How do you know there isn’t anyone with a gun in a bar you go into? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/196 "2009-08-17T17:37:22Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > …How would I possible know what people in other cultures think about bearing arms? Read. Travel. Learn. Universality. Welcome to The 21rst Century. Paranoia. Militias. Bunkers. Ammunition. Siege mentality. Living in the past. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/197 "2009-08-17T18:09:06Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Read. Travel. Learn. Universality. I’ve been to over 20 countries. I didn’t go to them to take political surveys of people so I could come home and tell people how shitty our country is. I happen to appreciate ALL the freedoms we have here. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/198 "2009-08-17T18:46:08Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > …How do you know there isn’t anyone with a gun in a bar you go into? Didn’t say that. Said the odds were good. And they are. Of course, all I’ve got is that I’ve lived amongst these people for a long damn time. You got more expertise, belly up and whip it out. True, they aren’t as exciting as Texans, and that takes some getting used to. Three, maybe four hours. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/199 "2009-08-17T18:46:54Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I’ve been to over 20 countries. I didn’t go to them to take political surveys of people so I could come home and tell people how shitty our country is. I happen to appreciate ALL the freedoms we have here. Well, you certainly didn’t go to learn about _nuance_ either. ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/200 "2009-08-17T18:49:18Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > …my answer was sarcasm. It got popular in big cities in the 50’s and didn’t seem to catch on in Podunk? You should probably abandon it; you haven’t quite got the mechanics of it figured out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377.md?page=11)