# Nut With Gun at Town Hall **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377 "2009-08-14T03:04:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/121 "2009-08-16T06:30:59Z")
That’s the “tool” the protester brought to the town hall meeting in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/122 "2009-08-16T06:44:53Z")
Ahh I see. Not the gun if I was going to try and kill someone from a distance. It is so short and so light that accuracy is horrible. I shot five rounds through one and my hands were sore, and these were handloaded “weak” rounds. From my understanding though most self defense situations are at very close ranges. I would concealed carry one but if I was open carrying it wouldn’t be my first choice. I’m not sure of the point you are making here though? My understanding of the argument so far. 1. People thought it was pittable that a man open carried a firearm to a townhall meeting carrying a potentially threatening sign. 2. People argued that it was his legal right to open carry and it would have been wrong to arrest him. 3. A arguments ensues over the threatening nature of his sign. 4. We moved into tiny penis territory and somebody makes the guns are only made for killing people argument. 5. The response is that guns are tools, and most guns are not meant for or used for killing humans. 6. You point out very coyly that the man was carry a “kill people” gun. This is where I get lost. It doesn’t change point 2, that his carry was legal. It also doesn’t change point 5 that most guns are not designed or used for killing people. It’s a point that at first glance seems like a gotcha but it seems pretty empty to me. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/123 "2009-08-16T10:41:29Z")
I’d say that’s a stainless steel pistol, which means it’s good for outdoor use and open carry, and I’d say it’s hammerless, or at least the hammer is not visible when not cocked, which makes it easier to draw when it might snag on something. I’d call that a personal defense revolver, in the ten to thirty foot range. With a barrel like that, it’s not going to be accurate worth a darn in anything longer than that, especially in a rapidly drawn situation. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/124 "2009-08-16T11:11:37Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Do you have a spare tire on your vehicle? Why? Are you scared? People drive around with a spare tire because we live in a world where sharp objects and debris is fairly common on our roadways. We don’t, however, live in the Wild West. A spare tire takes little time to learn how to safely use, requires no training to have with you, you’ll likely eventually need it, and it puts those around you at virtually no risk of death or permanent disability if you make a poor judgment call. Whereas guns are the opposite. And yes, guns are tools. And so a chain saws. But I wouldn’t take a chain saw into the grocery store with me either. Why? Because there aren’t any damn trees to cut down in a grocery store. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/125 "2009-08-16T12:26:41Z")
Oddly enough, there might be things to shoot in a grocery store. So, therefore, you should bring a gun in with you, by that logic. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/126 "2009-08-16T12:28:38Z")
There are currently 15,000 nuclear weapons in the world, down frpm a high of 45,000. Only two of those have been used against people. Therefore nuclerar weapons are not designed to be used against people. They are just tools. And besides, the 2nd ammendment gives me the right to have nuclear weapons so that I can defend my family, ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/127 "2009-08-16T12:33:19Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > But according to the article "In 1991, there were 211 million privately-owned firearms in the U.S., which then had a population of 252 million people. Of these firearms, about 71 million were handguns.(10) The long-term trend in both handgun production and criminal use has been away from manual revolvers and towards rapid-firing, semi-automatic pistols. " > > “Since 1989, manufacturers and importers introduced an average of 3.5 million new guns into the U.S. market each year.” > > Out of 211 million guns there was > > Types of Firearm deaths, 1993 (19) > > ## Suicide 18,940 Firearm homicide 18,571 Handgun homicide 13,980 Justifiable homicide 251 Accidental 1,521 Undetermined 563 > > Total 39,595 > Which means that the vast vast majority of firearms are not used for killing people. This data also shows that the use of guns for justifiable homicide is totally dwarfed by it’s use for other kinds of killing. ---
**Author:** ![Miltonyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Miltonyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miltonyz)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/128 "2009-08-16T15:03:07Z")
> [@](#): > > There are currently 15,000 nuclear weapons in the world, down frpm a high of 45,000. Only two of those have been used against people. Therefore nuclerar weapons are not designed to be used against people. They are just tools. And besides, the 2nd ammendment gives me the right to have nuclear weapons so that I can defend my family, That’s a poor argument and you know it. How many people go plinking everyday with nuclear weapons? How many people people shoot skeet with nuclear weapons? How many bullseye competitions are held with nuclear weapons. How many Olympic sports are based around nuclear weapons? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/129 "2009-08-16T15:10:40Z")
White House spokesman: [nobody panic!](http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/no-increase-in-presidential-security-despite-town-hall-anger-2009-08-14.html) > [@](#): > > There has been no increase in the number of security threats to President Barack Obama despite the contentious town hall meetings taking place around the country, according to the White House. > > White House press secretary Robert Gibbs also said Friday there has been no change in the security precautions. > > “We haven’t viewed any increase in threats, and there’s been no change in any of that,” Gibbs said. Or perhaps it’s just that the administration just realizes that while it may be in the best interests of [Mark Potok](http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8324481&page=1) and the SPLC to push their political fetish porn about how there’s a scary right-wing mob out there THAT COULD SNAP AT ANY MINUTE! - it’s not really in the best interests of the administration itself, to say nothing of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/130 "2009-08-16T15:13:32Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > This data also shows that the use of guns for justifiable homicide is totally dwarfed by it’s use for other kinds of killing. Were there accurate statistics around, which there are not because such things are not reported, you would learn that the mere display of a firearm is the key deterrent. I say that with two years of experience (yeah, I know, not much, but enough to know) as an armed guard and having displayed (never pointed, never fired) a firearm five times to prevent my previous house from being broken into while I was home (and they knew I was home) and once to prevent myself from being mugged in a remote location. So in my personal experience: Six times displayed in private life to prevent a crime against me, multiple close calls on the job to prevent other crimes vs. ZERO times ever firing it at someone = The number of times used that didn’t result in killing anyone totally dwarfs the number of times (ZERO) that I’ve killed someone with a firearm. Pretty darned sure that my experience is not even slightly unique. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/131 "2009-08-16T15:18:32Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Oddly enough, there might be things to shoot in a grocery store. So, therefore, you should bring a gun in with you, by that logic. Also, something heavy could fall from a high shelf. Better bring your hard hat. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/132 "2009-08-16T15:32:21Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > That’s a poor argument and you know it. How many people go plinking everyday with nuclear weapons? How many people people shoot skeet with nuclear weapons? How many bullseye competitions are held with nuclear weapons. How many Olympic sports are based around nuclear weapons? Of course it’s a stupid argument, that’s my point. There are very few people I know of that want to eliminate Olympic target rifles. Shooting for pleasure and hunting is a fine actiity, and one that would not be impacted by things like gun locks or transporting guns in locked cases, or requiring gun safes, or any number of other regulations. But then we hear from the crowd that thinks the world is so unsafe they need to preen around with a gun strapped to their leg. So pleas, make up your mind. Are you arguing for continued access to guns for recreation or are you arguing that unfettered access to guns is necessary for self-defense and killing the occasional president when he gets uppity? If we want to make analogies, here is one: prescription drugs each year save the lives of millions of people, and kill only a small number, so why restrict access to them? Cars are used safely for recreation and commuting far more than they are unsafely resulting in death and injury. Why require they have ignition locks, or have their title registered, or that operators be trained. Face it, those of you who argue for completely unregulated access to guns come down to three arguments: 1. The 2nd ammendment prohibits gun regulation. 2. The world is a scary place and if I don’t have access to guns my family is unsafe. 3. Guns are what protect us from tyranny. All this crap about recreational shooting is a smoke screen, because there are many ways that those activities could be accomodated with some regulations in place on guns. But of course we are wll off the mark of the OP, where the argument is whether somone in their right mind would think strappping on a gun and holding a threatening sign is appropriate to do during a presidential visit. The fact that some think it is, goes to show how removed they are from reality. Maybe someday I’ll walk into a church with a chainsaw (a tool) and snicker at anyone who thinks that it is “bad” or “scary” or “inappropriate”. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/133 "2009-08-16T15:33:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Anyone else want to claim that the reason [this gun](http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2500/2594.htm) was created to shoot at paper targets? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s the “tool” the protester brought to the town hall meeting in the OP. No it isn’t. Every video and picture I saw of this non-incident shows he’s carrying a semi-auto pistol, not a revolver. [http://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,5164.0.html](http://wethearmed.com/index.php/topic,5164.0.html) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/134 "2009-08-16T17:15:43Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > So pleas, make up your mind. Are you arguing for continued access to guns for recreation or are you arguing that unfettered access to guns is necessary for self-defense and killing the occasional president when he gets uppity? Some of my guns are military-pattern (AR-15, FAL), and were designed and optimized for _conflict_. While I certainly enjoy shooting them on the range, they will _ **also** _ come in handy if I need to defend myself and my family from anyone who systematically infringes on our natural & inalienable rights. In the same vein as the militia did at Concord. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/135 "2009-08-16T17:19:58Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Were there accurate statistics around, which there are not because such things are not reported, you would learn that the mere display of a firearm is the key deterrent. > > I say that with two years of experience (yeah, I know, not much, but enough to know) as an armed guard and having displayed (never pointed, never fired) a firearm five times to prevent my previous house from being broken into while I was home (and they knew I was home) and once to prevent myself from being mugged in a remote location. > > So in my personal experience: Six times displayed in private life to prevent a crime against me, multiple close calls on the job to prevent other crimes vs. ZERO times ever firing it at someone = The number of times used that didn’t result in killing anyone totally dwarfs the number of times (ZERO) that I’ve killed someone with a firearm. > > Pretty darned sure that my experience is not even slightly unique. And those people were deterred because you threatened to shoot at a paper target. Just imagine how effective it would be if you’d had a tool that was designed to kill. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/136 "2009-08-16T17:49:58Z")
> [@Miltonyz](#): > > That’s a poor argument and you know it. How many people go plinking everyday with nuclear weapons? How many people people shoot skeet with nuclear weapons? How many bullseye competitions are held with nuclear weapons. How many Olympic sports are based around nuclear weapons? Just one, but he is the most _interesting_ man in the world. > [@emcee2k](#): > > Also, something heavy could fall from a high shelf. Better bring your hard hat. Hey, it was your logic, not mine. I thought it was a bit absurd, myself. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/137 "2009-08-16T17:53:02Z")
Yeah, that’s clearly a semi-auto of some kind. Can’t say more, I’m no expert at pistol recognition. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/138 "2009-08-16T17:53:37Z")
In public, I find carrying around a chainsaw is much more effective. Fewer ordinances to worry about. Nothing says “badass” like a chainsaw. If (God forbid) I need to use it in an emergency situation, the visage of me, screaming like a banshee and waving the roaring chainsaw in the air is both likely to scare evildoers so shitless as to render them non-functional (allowing me the opportunity to get close enough to de-arm (note, not dis-arm) them), _and_ will make for one hell of a YouTube video. At home, I have a hair-trigger setup wired into the house sound system. At the touch of a button (from many rooms), the CHI-CHUNK of a shotgun’s action fills the air. There are many sounds out there, but none sound like that. Any crimiminals left in the house after hearing that will be rendered completely ineffective because they will have shit themselves. Of course, I named my cat Ash, so that may suggest a certain proclivity for some of the above. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/139 "2009-08-16T17:54:34Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Some of my guns are military-pattern (AR-15, FAL), and were designed and optimized for _conflict_. They’re also great for training young men before they serve in the armed forces. Every second of training helps in a crisis. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377/140 "2009-08-16T18:09:51Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > In public, I find carrying around a chainsaw is much more effective. Fewer ordinances to worry about. This is incorrect. In many states openly carrying a firearm is protected by the state constitution. There is no such right to carry a chainsaw around in public. You would actually be more open to a disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace charge while carrying a chainsaw than you would openly carrying a firearm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nut-with-gun-at-town-hall/506377.md?page=8)