# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 107
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2122 "2024-02-16T21:45:22Z")
I meant $40M–isn’t 10% standard for a bail/bondsman? If he can’t get a bond then he has to put up the full amount? And who, if savvy, is going to accept a CFP from the Trump org? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2123 "2024-02-16T21:48:00Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > I meant $40M–isn’t 10% standard for a bail/bondsman? If he can’t get a bond then he has to put up the full amount?   I think that’s for bail bond, which the Orange One may be facing eventually as well, but I’m pretty sure that in these civil judgments you have to put up the full amount in order to appeal. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2124 "2024-02-16T21:49:10Z")
That’s what I keep reading. He gets it back if he fully wins the appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2125 "2024-02-16T21:50:22Z")
Yes–you pay the bondsman/surety underwriter a fee and _they_ put up the full amount. Keeping the fee in any event. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2126 "2024-02-16T21:52:02Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > I meant $40M–isn’t 10% standard for a bail/bondsman? If he can’t get a bond then he has to put up the full amount? Ah. Thanks for the explanation. Generally, yes, but this time he’s not dealing with bail. This is a court bond in a civil matter, which Dog the Bounty Hunter wouldn’t touch, precisely because it is a civil matter. As such, then should a surety underwriter agree to write the bond, the fee won’t necessarily be 10%. It will be whatever the underwriter decides it should be. Like I implied, this is how things work with this type, and at this level, of bonding. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2127 "2024-02-16T21:58:13Z")
So what happens (in a civil trial) if a surety firm puts up the full bond and the appeal loses but the verdict is reduced? I assume they get back the difference and keep the fee? The whole thing sounds like a terrible bet. I’d be, like, “I’ll put up the $400M. My fee is $440M.” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2128 "2024-02-16T22:01:42Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > So what happens (in a civil trial) if a surety firm puts up the full bond and the appeal loses but the verdict is reduced? I assume they get back the difference and keep the fee? The whole thing sounds like a terrible bet. > > I’d be, like, “I’ll put up the $400M. My fee is $440M.” Trump essentially has to take out a loan for $400mm on whatever commercial terms he can negotiate, secured against whatever assets he can provide as collateral. Nobody is just going to give him $400mm unsecured. If the appeal loses, he either repays the loan or he forfeits the collateral, just like any commercial loan secured against collateral. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2129 "2024-02-16T22:03:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I also would like to note that interest is going to be applied to these fines, accrued since the occurrence(s) “Occurrences” meaning…?? Dates the crimes were committed? ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2130 "2024-02-16T22:04:03Z")
He’s a pretty bad risk right now, I’d say. It’ll be interesting to see if someone will write that loan. What’s the status of the E Jean Carroll bond, anybody know? I’d imagine he has to bond for ALL his judgements or nobody is going to accept collateral. Anything he owns can now be attached at any time, and first come first served when it comes to liens. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2131 "2024-02-16T22:05:33Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > So what happens (in a civil trial) if a surety firm puts up the full bond and the appeal loses but the verdict is reduced? I assume they get back the difference and keep the fee? The whole thing sounds like a terrible bet. It’s not a bet, though it can sound like one. Basically, the surety doesn’t really put money into court; it assures the court, through the bond, that it can make good on the amount if it becomes necessary to do so. Reputable and big surety companies that have dealt with court bonds for years can do this, and the courts know to which companies they can extend this privilege. So if the amount is reduced on appeal, the surety simply pays the reduced amount to the court. Then, of course, the surety subrogates against the person or business that made them pay out. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2132 "2024-02-16T22:06:20Z")
I mean, people are going to look long and hard at the valuation and existing obligations on collateral he offers, but by all accounts he does have substantial assets. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2133 "2024-02-16T22:09:54Z")
Trump is miserable tonight and that’s wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2134 "2024-02-16T22:10:05Z")
I’ll have to look into surety companies writing $400M bonds–I imagine that Exxon/Mobil when faced with a judgement like this self-insures? Not too many private individuals facing this situation. Say what you will about Jeff Bezos but I doubt he pulls this kind of shit. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2135 "2024-02-16T22:14:57Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Trump is miserable tonight and that’s wonderful. I’m buying stock in Heinz ketchup! ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2136 "2024-02-16T22:27:49Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Trump is miserable tonight and that’s wonderful. He’s got some super calm and rational Truths out now! Looks like he is taking the news well. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2137 "2024-02-16T22:29:18Z")
Michael Cohen is currently being interviewed on MSNBC and says that all these real property assets of Trump’s are already encumbered by mortgages. So even if he sells them, he’s unlikely to be able to raise sufficient cash to satisfy these judgments. I guess we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2138 "2024-02-16T22:29:38Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > He’s got some super calm and rational Truths out now! Looks like he is taking the news well. Actually, or are you being sarcastic? I don’t subscribe to his website. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2139 "2024-02-16T22:30:38Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Anything he owns can now be attached at any time, and first come first served when it comes to liens. I don’t think that’s right. If he’s already used a property as security (eg a mortgage on Trump Tower), then that mortgagee has first call on the asset. Somebody who files a lien after a mortgage is taken out comes after the mortgagee in priorities. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2140 "2024-02-16T22:30:50Z")
Trump testified under oath that he had 400 million in cash, wouldn’t he get in trouble if he suddenly didn’t have the money now? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2141 "2024-02-16T22:31:40Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > secured against whatever assets he can provide as collateral. Which, I assume, will require an independent (or at least hired by the lender) appraisal of said collateral, because no one is going to take his word for how much something is worth. Is Trump willing to let someone start appraising his property and assigning values to it more closely aligned with reality? ISTM, that he’d want to stay as far away as possible from that rabbit hole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=106) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=108)