# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/241 "2023-09-26T21:41:41Z")
Makes perfect sense. Sue the judge, then demand that he recuse himself because of the conflict created by that other case. I can’t believe anyone saw through this cunning plan. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/242 "2023-09-26T21:44:19Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Would this pre-trial summary judgment phase still have happened if it were a jury trial? It’s common in civil litigation for one or both sides to move for summary judgment after discovery closes and the strengths and weaknesses of each side’s case are known. To win, the moving party has to show that there aren’t any material issues of fact still in doubt that require trial to decide. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/243 "2023-09-26T21:46:56Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Trump had argued that the fraudulent income disclosures were accompanied by disclaimers that were drafted in such a heavy-handed way that they made the financial disclosures worthless, and that the companies he did business with should have known that and done their own research. Judge Engoran foreshadowed that point last week: > [@](#): > > The high-stakes battle is coming to a head this week, with Engoron expected to issue his ruling by Tuesday. He has already expressed sympathy with some of James’ arguments: At a court appearance last week, addressing Kise, **Engoran pounded his fist in apparent frustration and remarked, “You cannot make false statements and use them in business.”** ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/244 "2023-09-26T21:48:35Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > It’s common in civil litigation for one or both sides to move for summary judgment after discovery closes and the strengths and weaknesses of each side’s case are known. To win, the moving party has to show that there aren’t any material issues of fact still in doubt that require trial to decide. So is it fair to say that this summary judgment on the core issue probably makes Habba’s failure to request a jury trial that much less significant? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/245 "2023-09-26T21:50:39Z")
I forgot to mention that “worthless clauses” was Trump’s actual term for the disclaimers, and he bragged repeatedly about their worthlessness in his deposition. IIRC, at one point he claimed that lawyers everywhere, all the very good lawyers, told him he had the best “worthless clauses” they’d ever seen. ETA: I just held my nose and looked at Truth Social, and Trump’s rant is about his disclaimers making him innocent. And he’s railing at the Trump hating judge. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/246 "2023-09-26T21:53:13Z")
« The best worthless clauses » « A perfect telephone call » « The best people » « The best test answers » For some reason, people just don’t believe him. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/247 "2023-09-26T21:58:51Z")
From a CBC article: > [@](#): > > Beyond mere bragging about his riches, Trump, his company and key executives repeatedly lied about them on his annual financial statements, reaping rewards such as favourable loan terms and lower insurance premiums, Engoron found. > > Those tactics crossed a line and violated the law, the judge said, rejecting Trump’s contention that a disclaimer on the financial statements absolved him of any wrongdoing. > **[Judge rules Donald Trump defrauded banks, insurers as he built real estate...](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6978965)** > > A judge has ruled that Donald Trump committed fraud for years while building the real estate empire that catapulted him to fame and the White House. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/248 "2023-09-26T22:04:09Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > So is it fair to say that this summary judgment on the core issue probably makes Habba’s failure to request a jury trial that much less significant? Yes, on that issue at least. Judge would have made the ruling and this question would not be submitted to the jury. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/249 "2023-09-26T22:04:24Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > And he’s railing at the Trump hating judge. It’s truly odd how many judges just don’t appreciate his innocence, even the ones he appointed! More evidence of the Deep State ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/250 "2023-09-26T22:28:31Z")
The news dropped just as I was leaving the office. I had skipped to the loo and saw the news as I was shutting down the computer. “Ordering a quick timeline to dissolve.” “ name independent receivers to manage the dissolution within 10 days.” Trial for the remaining counts to start on oct. 2. Here is the ruling : [https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23991862/engoron-decision-and-order-september-26.pdf](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23991862/engoron-decision-and-order-september-26.pdf) > **[Donald Trump's New York Business Empire Must Be Dissolved, Judge Rules](https://themessenger.com/politics/new-york-trump-organization-judge-new-york-letitia-james#)** > > Judge Arthur Engoron ordered the cancellation of former President Donald Trump's businesses, including the Trump Organization ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/251 "2023-09-26T22:47:00Z")
Thanks for fielding that question, @Procrustus. While 30-plus years working in the legal world (regulatory decision copy editor, appellate brief copy editor, deposition and hearing/trial transcript proofreader) has given me a much broader understanding than the average layperson, I’m not a lawyer, and wasn’t sure of the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/252 "2023-09-26T22:48:48Z")
I’m sure Trump will appeal the ruling, but I have a hunch that the appeals court will also be nitpicking needy jerks demanding such things as “evidence” and “coherent legal arguments based on actual law” and such, so it probably won’t do more than delay the inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/253 "2023-09-26T23:04:18Z")
probably a good chance of the appeals court staying the dissolution order pending appeal, since that’s irreversible. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/254 "2023-09-26T23:08:27Z")
Gotta love a ruling that quotes the Marx brothers in the footnotes. I do enjoy good footnotes. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/255 "2023-09-26T23:16:59Z")
I guess that if Trump’s lawyers also asked for a summary judgement, WTF could they appeal? Also, does this mean that in NYC Trump’s name is coming off of any buildings? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/256 "2023-09-26T23:36:59Z")
Dipshit responds: > ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/257 "2023-09-26T23:48:47Z")
“Turn those machines back on!” ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/258 "2023-09-26T23:50:47Z")
That is only one of the three deranged, unhinged rants he has put out in the last hour. All CAPS MELTDOWN! ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/259 "2023-09-26T23:52:10Z")
This latest development must be hitting pretty close to the mark! “Wahh! They are being so mean to me - Wahhh!” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/260 "2023-09-26T23:54:35Z")
Eric “The Dumb One” Trump speaks out. > “We’ll over a billion” indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=14)