# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 138
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2742 "2024-03-20T12:17:28Z")
Any loan is going to require collateral, running Trump up against the same problems. He could try to take out loans against his properties, but those are already leveraged out the wazoo. 40 Wall Street may be “worth” 200 million dollars, but we don’t know how much of that value is tied up with creditors. I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if he’s underwater on many of his “big beautiful very liquid the most liquid you’ve ever seen” properties. There’s a very real possibility that Trump does not have any way to create 400 million dollars, even after selling off properties. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2743 "2024-03-20T12:30:03Z")
> [@ColdBrew50](#): > > It really does seem prima facie to be a a matter of self-interest for the surety companies to not deal with real estate holdings as collateral. > [@OldOlds](#): > > I’m also perplexed by this. There is no shortage of loans provided that use real estate as collateral. Though it’s far from conclusive, I’m going to extrapolate from this American Bar Association article that the surety bond companies are NOT barred from collateralizing a supersedeas bond with commercial real estate. [**Staying Judgements With Appeal Bonds - American Bar Association**](https://www.americanbar.org/groups/judicial/publications/appellate_issues/2019/summer/staying-judgment-with-appeal-bonds/) > [@](#): > > Real Estate > Many litigants are unaware that real estate is an option to secure an appeal bond. Presently, there are only two surety companies in the marketplace that will accept real estate as collateral for appeal bonds. Those sureties will primarily consider residential real estate (single and multi-family) and commercial properties (office, industrial, and retail). In some instances, they will accept raw land in very well-developed and high-demand areas. > > Generally, the sureties will require a property appraisal (there can be exceptions) and title insurance, which the appellant is responsible for paying for. The sureties discount the value of the property to account for potential market fluctuations, similar to how banks do not loan up to the full value of a property. The overall process can take anywhere from 30-60 days, depending on the type of property and size of the bond. > > The premium rates charged by sureties for real estate are typically much higher than other forms of collateral due to the illiquid nature and market risk involved with fluctuating values. Couple that with my earlier comments about what Trump’s legal team did and did not say in their filing, what their industry (surety bond) experts _did_ say, and what every other source does and does not say, and … I’m pretty comfortable that they _could_ provide TFG with a bond here, but are opting not to touch him with a ten-foot supersedeas pole. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2744 "2024-03-20T12:30:18Z")
Of course I understand that this is a possibility- but we don’t actually know what his net worth is, or how mortgaged his properties are. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s just sitting on a house of cards with a foundation of debt. But we don’t KNOW that. We can hope, though. ---
**Author:** ![ColdBrew50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@ColdBrew50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdBrew50)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2745 "2024-03-20T12:37:06Z")
Thanks! I’m just picturing Keith Morrisson templing his fingers and saying “Ohhhhhh!!! Reallly!!! Hmmmmm!!!” "Real estate _is_ an option, Hmmmm!!’ Or _would_ be! “Ohhh!” Yes, I do consider the ABA statement to be a definitive cite, so hammer down, AFAIC. Thank you for doing the digging. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2746 "2024-03-20T13:03:33Z")
I really hope that he’s able to raise just enough case to pay out his fines and penalties but is then destitute. ---
**Author:** ![anny\_m](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@anny\_m](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anny_m)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2747 "2024-03-20T15:12:24Z")
Does the bond have to be funded by a single entity? If “The Bonding Companies have never heard of such a bond, of this size before, nor do they have the ability to post such a bond” could 4 bonding companies each post 25%? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2748 "2024-03-20T15:33:43Z")
Sure, theoretically, but it’s already been proven in this thread that bond companies can and do put up larger bonds than that and Trump was just bullshitting as usual, so it’s kind of beside the point. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2749 "2024-03-20T15:46:26Z")
On-topic question, but changing lanes to Trump’s co-defendants, namely his sons. They are both on the hook for 5 million each and the reporting I have read says the bond they are trying to get would cover all three of them. But, if no bond is obtained, what is AG James going to be taking from them? If she seizes property, does a percentage of that cover Donnie Jr and Eric’s stake? Or does she also go after their own personal holdings? And how about the company officers? Does law enforcement start taking their furniture? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2750 "2024-03-20T15:46:32Z")
He may have even found one to do 100 million which is why he asked for the amount to be only that much ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2751 "2024-03-20T15:46:54Z")
So coming two days before D-Day for him (it’s on if the bond isn’t posted by end of business Friday, right?) We’ve 2 (and a bit) options here: - 1 He doesn’t have the money in any form. Nobody will bail him out. Hoping for this. - 2a He does have the money, and this is all the usual drama crap he does with everything, making everything a soap opera, and the bond will be posted (like the E J Carroll bond). - 2b He has scraped it via other means, threats, whatever, Putin flies it in, his daughters get it together, or Kushner puts it up. So it’s in the nick of time and the drama is real. I’m thinking it might be 2b. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2752 "2024-03-20T15:53:32Z")
1b) He doesn’t have the money in any form, nobody will bail him out, but finds a way to kick the can down the road even further. I see him filing some frivolous lawsuit or appeal or motion or whatever, that will put this all on hold for another few weeks or months. Don’t get me wrong, come Monday morning I’m hoping to see James and her team backing up U-Hauls to his properties to start seizing things, but I just don’t think it’s going to happen. [![](https://i.imgur.com/MdvM73u.jpeg) ](https://i.imgur.com/MdvM73u.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2753 "2024-03-20T16:17:11Z")
It’s possible that “The premium rates charged by sureties for real estate are typically much higher than other forms of collateral due to the illiquid nature and market risk involved with fluctuating value” may mean that Trump could work out a deal, but the terms are more onerous than he wants. Of course the terms he wants are probably zero percent interest and I’ll pay you back whenever, but we all have our own definition of what’s fair. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2754 "2024-03-20T16:39:33Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > it’s already been proven in this thread that bond companies can and do put up larger bonds Just to clarify, I don’t think Texaco was able to make a bond in the case I mentioned, and went into bankruptcy. I gave it as an example of a much bigger example than Trump’s case, where he was saying no-one had heard of such a large bond needed for an appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2755 "2024-03-20T16:44:23Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Of course the terms he wants are probably zero percent interest and I’ll pay you back whenever, but we all have our own definition of what’s fair. “I will gladly pay you Tuesday for five hundred mil today…” ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2756 "2024-03-20T17:16:19Z")
Recall that if/when Trump doesn’t make bond, that leads to a drawn out process where the State of NY goes after his properties. I understand that under such circumstances, the authorities often take their time. This involves some math Why won’t his billionaire supporters pony up? [Jonathan Chait](https://nymag.com/author/jonathan-chait/) tackles this pressing question. After giving it some thought, he concluded that billionaires prefer _gaining_ money over _losing_ it. Giving money to the Republican Senatorial committee leads to tax cuts which leads to _higher_ billionaire net worth. Loaning money to a crook like Trump makes them lose money. Billionaires don’t like that. They would rather have more money. > **[Why Won’t Rich Republicans Loan Money to Upstanding Businessman Donald Trump?](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/donald-trump-fines-broke-court-fraud-rich-republicans-loan.html)** > > My theory is that Trump is, in fact, a crook. > Of course, if I am wrong about all this, then Ken Langone or Elon Musk or Jeff Yass or some other Republican moneybags will soon step forward to loan Trump money in full confidence they can expect repayment. > But I don’t think I am wrong. As for foreign actors, that would be the Saudis, the Russians, and the Chinese. The Russians have the money and getting the US to leave NATO would advance Putin’s goals. The Russians are heavily sanctioned though, and Trump wouldn’t want to negotiate such a deal directly. So it would make sense to hire a connected ex-con like Paul Manafort, something that was reportedly under discussion as of yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2757 "2024-03-20T17:29:51Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > As for foreign actors, that would be the Saudis, the Russians, and the Chinese. And China would want him to drop his tariff and import tax nonsense. Not to mention they don’t have as close a connection to him as the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2758 "2024-03-20T20:18:41Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > wouldn’t touch it with a ~~30,000~~ 10,996 square foot pole. I see what you did there. 👏 ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2759 "2024-03-20T20:29:56Z")
We’re getting closer to knowing if TFG is going to be in position to tap into significant liquidity … on … Friday: > DWAC stockholders are currently set to hold a meeting Friday to approve the special purpose acquisition company’s merger with Trump Media, according to federal filings. Meanwhile, Trump is having trouble securing a nearly half a billion dollar bond to appeal his $454 million civil business fraud judgment. … maybe > The Miami-based SPAC has a history of postponing and rescheduling shareholder votes. [**SOURCE**](https://www.investors.com/news/dwac-stock-trump-media-merger-vote-donald-trump-needs-cash/) But it’s a fairly safe bet that this _also_ hasn’t been a compelling argument to the sureties that his people have approached about a half-billion dollar bond for NYS. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2760 "2024-03-20T20:35:40Z")
Half a billion doesn’t seem like much for Russia especially, in exchange for some juicy policy concessions in light of their money burning up in Ukraine. Of course, that would also hinge upon him winning in November and that will require additional spending to muck up the voting. Plus there’s a chance of getting caught, though back door dealings with Vladdie don’t seem to bother his supporters much. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2761 "2024-03-20T20:37:27Z")
And now there’s this! > **[Full list of Donald Trump's properties Letitia James is about to take](https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-donald-trumps-properties-letitia-james-about-take-1881265)** > > New York's attorney general could start seizing Trump assets if he cannot come up with a $464 million bond in his civil fraud case. > _Newsweek_ reviewed a document from the attorney general’s office that lists properties owned by Trump that had “fraudulent” and “misleading” values and could end up seized: > - Trump Park Avenue, New York, N.Y. > - Trump Tower, New York, N.Y. > - 40 Wall Street, New York, N.Y. > - Seven Springs, Westchester County, N.Y. > - Trump International Hotel and Tower, Las Vegas, Nevada > - Mar-a-Lago, Palm Beach, Florida > - Trump National Golf Club Westchester, Briarcliff Manor, N.Y. > - Trump National Golf Club Charlotte, Mooresville, North Carolina > - Trump National Golf Club Colts Neck, Colts Neck, New Jersey > - Trump National Golf Club, Washington, D.C., Sterling, Virginia > - Trump National Golf Club Hudson Valley, Hopewell Junction, N.Y. > - Trump National Golf Club Jupiter, Jupiter, Florida > - Trump National Golf Club Los Angeles, Rancho Palos Verdes, California > - Trump National Golf Club Philadelphia, Pine Hill, New Jersey > - Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Aberdeen) > - Trump International Golf Links Scotland (Turnberry) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=137) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=139)