# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 144
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2862 "2024-03-21T18:41:05Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Putin already owns Trump. Do you pay more cash for the coffee mug you’ve owned for the last decade because it has a sad? If it helps him own Trump for the next four years – assuming the bond makes it more likely Trump is elected – it would be a tremendous investment. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2863 "2024-03-21T18:56:28Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I’m pretty sure the US government could figure out such a straightforward shell game. Of course they could. But can they _do_ anything about it, other than tell everyone that Russia is paying Trump’s legal bills? MAGA won’t care. I think MAGA responses might be something like these: - This proves how great a Leader Our President is. He has a good relationship with Russia, and he will smooth everything over and save the Unites States! - The Deep State won’t allow Our President to get a bond from a U.S. company. What else was He going to do? The Deep State _made_ Our President take money from Russia! - Who cares? He’s Our President, and He was sent by God to save us! I’m leaning toward the last one. But the question remains: Can the U.S. government stop a foreign (Swiss) company from pulling money out of, or receiving money from, one of its own divisions? ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2864 "2024-03-21T19:04:51Z")
Here’s some news. "CNN — The New York attorney general’s office has filed judgments in Westchester County, the first indication that the state is preparing to try to seize Donald Trump’s golf course and private estate north of Manhattan, known as Seven Springs. State lawyers entered the judgments with the clerk’s office in Westchester County on March 6, just one week after Judge Arthur Engoron made official his $464 million decision against Trump, his sons Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, and the Trump Organization." Looks like a good first step. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2865 "2024-03-21T19:13:24Z")
Nothing cranks up the viciousness of a competitive shit-grab as a dwindling shit-pile does. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2866 "2024-03-21T19:38:31Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Resolved: there is no evidence of a hive mind here. I’ll stick to my usual run of the mill Four Roses. Not breaking out the top shelf for the likes of this chump. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2867 "2024-03-21T19:43:32Z")
Paying a politician off is more like gassing up your car. It’s a continuous expense that you commit to when you make the initial purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2868 "2024-03-21T19:47:15Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > > > But you are right that Trump residential buildings aren’t rental buildings, they are all condos or co-ops, which means that Trump doesn’t own the residential units, just portions of the common spaces. > > But what does that even mean? Are condos in the US significantly different than in Canada? > > In Canada, such common areas would be owned by the Condo Corporation set up to manage the condo, which is controlled by a board elected by the individual condo owners. Each owner is a part-owner of the condo corporation. The only time you’d have a third party owning any part of that would be in a new building, where the company that built the thing is still in the process of selling off the individual units. And even in that case, there’s at least a few laws to protect the interests of the individual owners during this transition time. > > So what does it mean for Trump to “own” these bits? Does he charge the other owners rent for using the hallways and elevators? Condos in the US work in the same way they do in Canada. If you look at the link I posted upthread, Trump doesn’t have any ownership interest in most of his residential buildings, except for the apartments he owns. But a couple of the properties are different. Trump Tower contains a large retail mall and multiple stories of office space. The condo space takes up less than half of the building. I believe that in cases like that the condo corporation doesn’t own the entire building, I’m going to guess that they own the actual upper floors of the building (the condos are on the upper floors) and the residential lobby and elevators as well as the hallways and any common spaces on the residential floors. I’ve done work in that building and I can confirm that the building has a separate residential lobby and that the residences have dedicated elevators. Im also assumimg that the employees that work in the residences - such as doormen and concierge services- are on the payroll of the condo corp. What I’m not sure about is if they have a dedicated maintenance staff or if there is some sort of cost-sharing regarding maintenance. I do know that there isn’t a separate service entrance (even though the residential section has their own service elevators) and the basement spaces aren’t divided. They also don’t have a women’s restroom (at least not one open to outside contractors) in the service basement. I’m not sure how they get away with that. It was a huge peeve of mine when I was working at a small apartment that didn’t have a working restroom during construction. Its bad enough to have to take an elevator down 50+ floors in order to pee, but I had to take an elevator down 50+ floors, take another elevator up to street level, walk around the corner to the entrance to the Trump Tower public space, discover that the restroom there was closed for cleaning then walk 3 blocks to the public library. And the public space restrooms are always closed, these developers include a public space in exchange for other concessions, but they make them as unpleasant as possible so people don’t use them. Sorry, any time I speak of Trump Tower I have to include my bathroom tirade. Back on topic. There is another Trump property where Trump owns some common areas, but that property is really split right down the middle, one half is the condo complex and the other half is the hotel. I believe the common areas Trump owns are in the hotel. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2869 "2024-03-21T19:47:20Z")
At this point, if someone was going to step in and help, I think there is no point in putting up the bond. Just bid $500 million when Seven Springs goes up for auction. Trump will never pay back a $500 million bond anyway, so you may as well get a golf course out of the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2870 "2024-03-21T20:21:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Is there a reason that wouldn’t work? [Chubb has already turned Trump down, is a publicly traded company and has already faced some heat for financing the first bond.](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/19/chubb-ended-trump-fraud-bond-talks-after-e-jean-carroll-appeal-bond-court-filing.html) Given that Chubb’s Trump-friendly CEO had already had to soothe worried/irate investors over the Carroll case bond, suddenly backtracking at the last minute to multiply that investment by 500% is going to create an internal firestorm Chubb doesn’t need. I really doubt they go that route for that reason alone. Chubb’s CEO is accountable and could lose his cushy job over flubbing it and Trump cannot protect him against that, President or not. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2871 "2024-03-21T20:26:13Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > The push to get this Trump Media merger finished ASAP suggest that he’s moved on to hailing a new Mary. If he’s able to get clearance to dump his stock (which seems to me is effectively clearance to destroy the company’s value), he’d only need to get around 15%\* of its current valuation before it bottoms out. My guess is that he doesn’t sell any stock, but is trying to use the valuation of his stock as collateral to secure financing. Isn’t that how the really wealthy people do it? They get stock options, then use that as collateral for a loan, which they repay at some interest percentage that is ridiculously lower than the income tax that would be incurred by liquidating the stock. Of course, that presupposes a valuation that banks believe to be accurate. > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > In November 2023, they were on target to lose 23 million for the year. I don’t see it happening. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2872 "2024-03-21T20:30:26Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Given that Chubb’s Trump-friendly CEO had already had to soothe worried/irate investors over the Carroll case bond, suddenly backtracking at the last minute to multiply that investment by 500% is going to create an internal firestorm Chubb doesn’t need. > > I really doubt they go that route for that reason alone. Chubb’s CEO is accountable and could lose his cushy job over flubbing it and Trump cannot protect him against that, President or not. trump is notorious for not paying his bills. This _was_ rather risky. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2873 "2024-03-21T20:39:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > trump is notorious for not paying his bills. This _was_ rather risky. What I heard is that he signed over a bank account. So, probably all of his liquid assets, about $90 million. They won’t need him to pay this debt if he loses; they’ll just take the money out of that bank. > [@](#): > > [Chubb CEO] Greenberg in his letter Wednesday said that Chubb had protected itself by requiring that Trump’s bond, like any others issued by the company, is “fully collateralized.” > > “If the bond is called, then Chubb takes the collateral which is intended to make us whole,” Greenberg wrote. “We hardly support or subsidize defendants or take ‘one for the team.’ > **[Chubb CEO defends backing Trump appeal bond in E. Jean Carroll case](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna143252)** > > Donald Trump has asked a federal appeals court to overturn a massive defamation judgment in favor of writer E. Jean Carroll, who accused him of rape. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2874 "2024-03-21T20:47:04Z")
i believe that is junior and eric’s favourite trump property. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2875 "2024-03-21T21:13:50Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > The New York attorney general’s office has filed judgments in Westchester County, the first indication that the state is preparing to try to seize Donald Trump’s golf course and private estate north of Manhattan, known as Seven Springs. > > State lawyers entered the judgments with the clerk’s office in Westchester County on March 6, just one week after Judge Arthur Engoron made official his $464 million decision against Trump, his sons Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, and the Trump Organization." > > Looks like a good first step. So let’s say that NY takes ownership of the property. Do they hold onto it until the appeals are exhausted or do they get to auction it off? I assume everything is in escrow until the appeals are done. In general, it doesn’t seem right that they could sell the property to someone else in case the appeal is successful. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2876 "2024-03-21T21:15:21Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Looks like a good first step. According to your CNN story, there is a golf course there, but I do not think that is true. Here is a good AP article on the property: > **[Claimed value of sleepy NY estate could come to haunt Trump](https://apnews.com/article/trump-westchester-estate-property-value-investigation-d6a128161e52d1cea94d4ffb54d14ef0)** > > NEW YORK (AP) — It’s sleepy by Donald Trump’s standards, but the former president's century-old estate in New York's Westchester County could end up being one of his bigger legal nightmares. What I get from the article is that Trump already deducted the full property value, from his taxes, by claiming he was preserving it from development in a natural state. So in a just world, it would not be available for him to use in payment for a judgment. As seen in my link, this property was willed, by previous ownership, for nonprofit/public use. Like Mar-a-Lago, which was willed to the National Park Service, it should never have been available for Trump to buy. Donald Trump is a confidence man. My guess is that between mortgages, liens, and fraud history, everything that they try to seize will not be legitimately his. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2877 "2024-03-21T21:51:41Z")
Re my last post, maybe I misunderstood part of the AP story, and so there might be a little legitimate Trump value in Seven Springs. While I think my basic point about his assets being generally questionable due to con artist trickery is correct, I may have made a mistake in how I argued it. So, for the record: > [@](#): > > Trump received a $21 million income tax deduction, equal to the value of the conserved land, according to property and court records. The amount was based on a professional appraisal that valued the full Seven Springs property at $56.5 million as of Dec. 1, 2015. > > That was a much higher amount that the evaluation by local government assessors, who said the entire estate was worth $20 million. If Trump deducted $21 million from the tax due, it looks like he has negative legitimate equity in Seven Springs. But if he deducted it from his income subject to taxation, then, theoretically, he might have some legitimate equity. Web search indicates that Trump reported negative adjusted gross income in the relevant tax year (2015 or 2016). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2878 "2024-03-21T22:00:01Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Yet Mar-a-Lago is physically his primary domicile. So, if you spent a lot of time in your work office, to the point where you spent nights and weekend there (sleeping on your cot), and it was technically your “primary domicile”, should that be considered having your home seized if the business is sold along with the building the business is done in? Because that is _literally_ the situation Trump is in. Trump is considered to be an employee of Mar-A-Lago, and is a resident employee. He’s an employee who lives at his employer’s residence, from a legal standpoint. That’s the only way he could get Palm Beach folks to approve of him living there. This does not in any way compare to kicking someone out of their house. ---
**Author:** ![Inferior\_Desecrator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9f8e36/32.png) [@Inferior\_Desecrator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inferior_Desecrator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2879 "2024-03-21T22:23:11Z")
Reddit had its IPO today. 73 million users. $800 million in revenue. Valued at 9.5B. I think Trump’s TS value of 10B is…optimistic 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2880 "2024-03-21T22:25:28Z")
Good data point(s), thanks! ---
**Author:** ![ColdBrew50](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9a140/32.png) [@ColdBrew50](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdBrew50)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/2881 "2024-03-21T22:40:18Z")
Yeah, I’m thinking Night Train with a Colt 45 chaser. Ok, ok, enough hijack! Fun while it lasted! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=143) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=145)