# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 154
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3062 "2024-03-27T23:41:10Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I also think “everybody does it” is a terrible defense. All you are doing is telling the authorities who they should be investigating next. And admitting guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3063 "2024-03-28T00:01:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, he already had legal issues. His SOP of not paying people led to lawsuits. The sexual assault and lawsuits stemming from that were not connected to his position, nor was the new York fraud case, here. Now on that- this si a fairly new law, so there likely havent been that many sued under it. > > And not paying attorneys got him bad legal advice. Fair point. I was thinking about his white collar stuff, not his sexual predation and related offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3064 "2024-03-28T00:18:18Z")
> [@anny\_m](#): > > Last evening I saw some guy (I think from Shark Tank, a show I do not watch) complain about how unfair the fraud case against Trump was because all the big players in New York real estate do what Trump did, and none of them have ever been prosecuted for it. Sounds like Kevin O’Leary. He’s a Canadian who appears on the Canadian version as well, called “Dragon’s Den”. I’ve seen him spouting that line. @Euphonious_Polemic has the best response to it: > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > " If other people do it, they should be prosecuted too. Are you saying you think it’s OK to be soft on crime?" ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3065 "2024-03-28T00:38:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > " If other people do it, they should be prosecuted too. Are you saying you think it’s OK to be soft on crime?" Additionally, if you went to the bank to get a loan, and for collateral you said your house was three times its actual size, you would have committed fraud to obtain that loan. Maybe the bank wouldn’t have lent you the money, or you would have had a higher interest rate. I believe the right wing defense to this is that “there was no victim” since “the banks were repaid their loans.” But, it not only deprives the bank of money it might have otherwise collected in interest, it also penalizes those competing businesses who are playing by the rules. If Trump can lie about his assets, and get away with it, then it encourages others to do the same. And then you no longer have a stable market. Moreover, I believe that Donald’s fraud also included devaluing property to cheat on his taxes. Again, if you or I lied about how many bedrooms our house had to not pay so much in property taxes, damn straight we’d be prosecuted. And the victims are those citizens who might have otherwise benefited from the taxes that should have been collected. It’s disingenuous to say that there were no victims. Besides, the government often prosecutes “victimless crimes”. Drug possession is a prime example. Claiming that there were no victims isn’t any kind of defense to the fraud. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3066 "2024-03-28T00:57:25Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > OK, I think I’ve got it - I thought it was cash for the Carroll bond. Thanks, guys. Just for the record, part of the confusion may be that in the first Carroll case to go to _trial_, he appealed and apparently DID [secure it with cash](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/23/politics/trump-e-jean-carroll-5-5-million/index.html) (approx $5.5 million), but that was (in the news cycle and countless Trump trials) ages ago. ETA - switched to less detailed but non-paywalled link ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3067 "2024-03-28T02:03:41Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > But judges only have to take this into account for billionaires, right? If I had a judgement against me in New York for $500,000, I would not be able to post a bond and the creditor would, I assume, immediately take everything I have and leave me in a worse financial condition if I win the appeal. I dunno. I don’t know how much discretion the courts have with supersedeas bonds. The article cited upthread says its rare. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3068 "2024-03-28T02:17:15Z")
Here’s an article from last September about the NY state law. It’s partially pay-walled, depending if you’ve read a different New Yorker article recently: > **[The Powerful New York Law That Finally Brought Trump to Book](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-powerful-new-york-law-that-finally-brought-trump-to-book)** > > In investigating the former President, New York’s attorney general relied on legislation passed at the behest of one of her Republican predecessors, Jacob Javits. > From 1957 to 1981, Javits served as a U.S. senator for New York, but before that he held the office that is currently occupied by James. As the New York attorney general, he earned a reputation as a liberal prosecutor who was willing to take on powerful interests. In 1956, his final year in office, he urged the state legislature to pass a new law that would give his office the power to investigate and bring actions against businesses that engage in “repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business.” Invoking this broad statute, Section 63(12) of New York’s Executive Law, the attorney general’s office has brought cases ranging from accusing three bus companies of violating New York City regulations on idling to accusing ExxonMobil of misleading investors about the business risks presented by climate change. > The most remarkable part, and the real scandal of all of this, is that it’s been widely known for decades in business and journalistic circles that Trump has routinely exaggerated the value of his assets. When the business journalist Timothy L. O’Brien wrote this in a [2005 account of Trump’s career](https://www.amazon.com/TrumpNation-Donald-Timothy-L-OBrien/dp/044669617X?ots=1&tag=thneyo0f-20&linkCode=w50), Trump sued O’Brien and pursued him through the courts for years before a judge dismissed the suit. It wasn’t until 2019, when one of Trump’s own former associates, [Michael Cohen](https://www.newyorker.com/tag/michael-cohen), made the same claim in congressional testimony, that prosecutors got interested. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3069 "2024-03-28T12:30:16Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > It’s disingenuous to say that there were no victims. Another aspect is that corruption is contagious. If “everyone does it” becomes the common attitude, then corruption spreads. Corruption means that the cost of doing business increases, because of all the grift that gets baked into the system. Honest businesses have to start greasing the skids as well, in order to compete. The net cost of things like new buildings goes up. Taxpayers get less value for their public services than in a clean market, because new schools, and roads, and bridges, all have a corruption fee built into them. Corruption is a hidden tax imposed on the citizens by the crooked businesses. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3070 "2024-03-28T12:33:48Z")
Here’s an IMF paper on the economic cost of corruption. It looks at more blatant corruption, like outright bribes, but highlights the effects of a loss of public trust. > **[The True Cost of Global Corruption – IMF F&D](https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/fandd/issues/2019/09/the-true-cost-of-global-corruption-mauro)** > > Global corruption distorts the activities of the state and ultimately takes a toll on economic growth and the quality of people’s lives, says the IMF’s Paul Mauro, Paulo Medas and Jean-Marc Fournier. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3071 "2024-03-28T16:11:25Z")
One of my good friends did quite a bit of pretty high level business in NYC. I remember sometime back he observed that Trump behaved exactly the same as the money guys/titans of industry he dealt with. Blowhard bullies used to getting their way. Just one anecdote, and not establishing widespread fraud. More just suggestive of a prevailing attitude. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3072 "2024-03-28T20:54:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Here’s an IMF paper on the economic cost of corruption. It looks at more blatant corruption, like outright bribes, but highlights the effects of a loss of public trust. Good cite, thanks. This is why Mexico continues to be a backward nation, even tho is should be a great place. Corruption is a way of life, the Cartels have taken over. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3073 "2024-04-01T02:28:36Z")
Here’s an article by a civil litigator of 40 years experience, plus federal prosecutor, and former junior Watergate prosecutor (some are still around ?!?). He thinks the appeals court decision to cut the bond is a fair result. > [@](#): > > Trump correctly pointed out that if the attorney general seized and sold those properties, and he ultimately succeeded on appeal, his appellate victory would be hollow, since there would be no way to unwind those transactions. > > That appears to be the underlying concern of the appellate court’s decision — requiring Trump to post a bond he could not possibly meet would effectively deny him the ability to appeal what is indisputably an unusually large judgment. > … > At the same time it reduced the bond to approximately 38 percent of the original judgment — $175 million is not exactly chump change — the appellate court took care to protect New York State’s full judgment. The court expressly precluded Trump’s ability to delay the appellate process by limiting the timing of that process. The court “conditioned” its ruling on Trump “perfecting the appeals for the September 2024 Term of this Court.” > > This means that Trump must file his appeal brief and supporting documents for the appeal in July, with the appeal being argued in September. During this appellate process, interest of over $100,000 per day continues to accumulate on the judgment at New York’s 9 percent statutory interest rate. [https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4565518-reducing-trumps-appellate-bond-doesnt-let-him-off-the-hook/](https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4565518-reducing-trumps-appellate-bond-doesnt-let-him-off-the-hook/) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3074 "2024-04-01T02:54:32Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Here’s an article by a civil litigator of 40 years experience, plus federal prosecutor, and former junior Watergate prosecutor (some are still around ?!?). As much as I’d like to see Trump burn, I’m not willing to torch concepts such as due process and fairness in order to set his world aflame. I’m fine with the appellate court’s decision. It’s infuriating that someone who seeks to tear down the system is proteted by it, but that’s just how life works sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3075 "2024-04-01T12:45:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > …former junior Watergate prosecutor (some are still around ?!?). I was 25 during the Watergate hearings, so yeah, _still around._ ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3076 "2024-04-01T19:39:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > former junior Watergate prosecutor (some are still around ?!?). Another of the junior prosecutors on the Watergate case, [Jill Wine-Banks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Wine-Banks), is also still around. I see her regularly on MSNBC, as a guest commentator on legal matters. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3077 "2024-04-01T21:12:27Z")
I guess I am just surprised that they’re still active professionally. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3078 "2024-04-01T21:24:19Z")
We all heard last Monday that the NY appeals court without any explanation reduced the bond amount to a paltry $175 million and gave Trump 10 more days to post it. That means D-day should be in about 48 hours. Anyone heard anything about him posting the bond yet? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3079 "2024-04-01T21:27:25Z")
No. And I predict Trump requesting, and the court granting a delay. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3080 "2024-04-01T21:28:09Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > We all heard last Monday that the NY appeals court without any explanation reduced the bond amount to a paltry $175 million and gave Trump 10 more days to post it. That means D-day should be in about 48 hours. Anyone heard anything about him posting the bond yet? Waiting until the last minute keeps people talking about Trump which is something he loves. Assuming he can post the bond, and I’m assuming he can, he won’t post it until the last minute. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3081 "2024-04-01T22:01:34Z")
No but thanks for the reminder [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=153) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=155)