# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 162
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3222 "2024-04-05T19:08:31Z")
If this truly represents the bulk of Trump’s cash, then there _is_ a reason to maintain control over it rather than locking it up for a relatively indeterminate period of time. It’s sort of like using your credit card as a “float” in order to preserve cash for needs that you can anticipate. He has ongoing business concerns – such as they are. He may simply want to preserve cash for daily operations. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3223 "2024-04-05T19:09:15Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Hankey could not recall if Trump also used bonds as collateral I mean, it was just a $175,000,000 bond for a former President. I do like, twenty of those a week. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3224 "2024-04-05T19:10:37Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > He has ongoing business concerns – such as they are. He may simply want to preserve cash for daily operations. But the assumption is he’s pledge this money as collateral for the bond. Thus, he couldn’t use any for daily operations. Something is fishy. No surprise. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3225 "2024-04-05T19:13:43Z")
I thought much/most of it was in the form of a brokerage account? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3226 "2024-04-05T19:14:36Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I thought much/most of it was in the form of a brokerage account ? Sure, but the deal has to be he can’t touch it. Otherwise, it could all be spent before it’s needed. Like that $400 million in cash he had a few months ago. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3227 "2024-04-05T19:15:52Z")
Thanks, this makes sense. I’ve read in several places that more than one of Trump’s loans require him to maintain a certain level of liquidity or the loans get called. That could be reason enough. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3228 "2024-04-05T19:52:08Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I’ve read in several places that more than one of Trump’s loans require him to maintain a certain level of liquidity or the loans get called. But but but… If the account is encumbered by being liable to be seized by Knight to pay the bond… It’s not exactly liquid is it? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3229 "2024-04-05T19:53:33Z")
I am really starting to think that once the appeal of this NY case is finished (and the appeal of the Carroll case as well), that Trump’s business will completely crater, as the house of cards of loans paying off loans etc. completely collapses. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3230 "2024-04-05T19:59:51Z")
And that will, IMO, be compounded if/when he loses the election and starts dropping off the radar. People are likely to offer him a lot less leniency if they don’t have to worry about him dragging them through the mud on (inter)national TV if they only go so far as to treat him fairly. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3231 "2024-04-05T20:15:22Z")
i believe that was the collateral for the chubb bond. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3232 "2024-04-05T20:18:39Z")
I have to take back my post and try it again. Trump _did_ use a brokerage account to **[collateralize](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/19/chubb-ended-trump-fraud-bond-talks-after-e-jean-carroll-appeal-bond-court-filing.html)** the defamation judgment. It seems as though he **[collateralized](https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-secures-175-million-bond-new-york-civil/story?id=108715465)** the Civil Fraud Judgment bond (Knight) with a combination of cash and – maybe – investment-grade bonds. Yeah. It is hard keeping track of his limitless recidivism. ETA: **[this](https://www.reuters.com/legal/businessman-behind-trumps-ny-bond-says-he-charged-him-low-fee-2024-04-05/)** may be part of what had me confused: > He said the cash is held at a brokerage firm and pledged to Knight, and that Knight can access it if needed. Having cash in a brokerage account isn’t at all unusual. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3233 "2024-04-05T20:38:43Z")
Seriously though, shouldn’t the state of NY be the ones with an account currently holding those funds?? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3234 "2024-04-05T20:44:26Z")
Requiring this kind of bond in order to stay a judgment (ie, stop collection efforts) and – in some jurisdictions – allow an appeal to go forward is a pretty common thing: > **[Supersedeas bond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersedeas_bond)** > > A supersedeas bond (often shortened to supersedeas), also known as a defendant's appeal bond, is a type of surety bond that a court requires from an appellant who wants to delay payment of a judgment until an appeal is over. > This is a feature of common law, and in particular the American legal system. In most European countries an appeal leads to an automatic stay of execution, unless the judge expressly ordered immediate execution. > According to Black's Law Dictionary, a supersedeas bond (also ... It’s not unlike a criminal defendant who can post either cash or a bond in order to be released on bail. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3235 "2024-04-05T21:26:05Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Someone asked this earlier and if it was answered, I missed it. Maybe there’s some advantage. 1. If the cost of the bond is less than the amount the assets will appreciate. 2. To avoid the taxes of liquidating the assets. 3. And for completeness as @DavidNRockies said: to reserve your cash for day-to-day operations. All the same reasons an actual wealthy person might take on debt. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3236 "2024-04-05T21:43:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > But but but… If the account is encumbered by being liable to be seized by Knight to pay the bond… It’s not exactly liquid is it? All right, the fishy smell has now returned… ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3237 "2024-04-05T21:59:44Z")
From memory, a couple of the loans that Trump took out had unencumbered liquidity requirements of maybe $30-50 million. A couple, I think, also had net worth floors of maybe $2.5BN. I don’t know which, if any, of those loans are still outstanding or if they’ve been paid off or refinanced. I also don’t know if they _each_ required a separate and distinct pot of money that they could hope to attach or whether any and all lenders were – even if only by default – content to have a fungible, generic pot of money that Trump could readily access. But if those are the only kind of numbers that we’re talking about, then – without _really_ knowing _anything_ about his true financial condition – getting that $474M bond number down to $175M probably allowed him to continue to meet any of these outstanding requirements. Probably 😉 But … cod? Is it cod we’re smelling?? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2024, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3238 "2024-04-05T22:01:13Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > But … cod? Is it cod we’re smelling?? I knew it! ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3239 "2024-04-06T00:29:48Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > But … cod? Is it cod we’re smelling?? Donald Trump never bought anything COD. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3240 "2024-04-06T00:55:17Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Is it cod we’re smelling?? More like garum. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3241 "2024-04-06T00:59:26Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > Donald Trump never bought anything COD. That’s only because it no longer counts as COD if you grab the D without providing the C. Hmmm. That sounds dirtier than I meant it to but I’m not changing it now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=161) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=163)