# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 163
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3242 "2024-04-06T13:12:25Z")
This is getting pretty meta. Who had “Trump probably lied about lying about lying about whether or not he has any money??” > **[Trump saved millions by keeping court in dark about billionaire's bond offer:...](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-saved-millions-keeping-court-024626410.html)** > > Billionaire Don Hankey offered to pay Donald Trump's full $464 million bond, but Trump's lawyers didn't notify the court about the offer, ProPublica reported. > [@](#): > > After his team cited hardship in securing funding, Trump’s civil fraud trial bond was cut to $175 million. > > ProPublica reported a billionaire businessman offered to post the original $464 million amount due. > > By failing to report the offer, Trump’s legal team may have violated ethics rules, ProPublica found. It’s a bit more nuanced than that. We’re really at a “may have” at this point, but … Trump. Stop, Hammer time! ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3243 "2024-04-06T17:42:32Z")
I think all of Trump’s cases have lost their appeal, in that I’m no longer interested because they’re being dragged along. And I’m increasingly sceptical that any of them will result in significant consequences for him. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3244 "2024-04-06T18:04:47Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > This is the detail that smells especially fishy. I’m no expert in surety bonds, but why would Trump pay a fee for a bond collateralized by cash, when he could just as easily put up the cash and paid no fee? > > Someone asked this earlier and if it was answered, I missed it. Maybe there’s some advantage. Because otherwise it makes no sense and reeks of the typical Trump skullduggery. > > Any ideas? Something about whoever posts the bond having to also provide a statement about their finances, I think (don’t take that to the pub for trivia night). ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3245 "2024-04-06T22:23:32Z")
Knight, the surety who provided the bond for Trump, may not be adequately capitalized to meet New York’s supersedeas bond requirements. They also appear _not_ to be licensed in the State of New York, potentially violating another requirement. Engoron has a hearing set for April 22 on the bond issues. > **[N.Y. AG skeptical of Donald Trump's bond posting that one legal expert calls...](https://news.yahoo.com/n-y-ag-skeptical-donald-205100113.html)** > > New York Attorney General Letitia James has called Donald Trump's $175 million bond posting into question, despite a corrected submission. > “This bond is further financial chicanery in a trial about financial chicanery,” Pollock said. “This judge is going to have little patience for a flawed bond.” ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3246 "2024-04-06T22:30:17Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Engoron has a hearing set for April 22 on the bond issues. Since they are going back to court, the judge may also have questions about the fact that Hankey apparently offered, _initially_, to cover the _entire_ amount of the bond. When Donald’s lawyers begged for a lower amount, because donald “couldn’t” secure the full judgment total, they may not have been completely candid. > [@](#): > > In an interview with ProPublica, billionaire California financier Don Hankey said he reached out to Trump’s camp several days before the bond was lowered, expressing willingness to offer the full amount and to use real estate as collateral. > > “I saw that they were rejected by everyone and I said, ‘Gee, that doesn’t seem like a difficult bond to post,’” Hankey said. > > As negotiations between Hankey and Trump’s representatives were underway, the appellate court ruled in Trump’s favor, lowering the bond to $175 million. The court did not give an explanation for its ruling. > > Hankey ended up giving Trump a bond for the lowered amount. > **[Trump’s Lawyers Told the Court That No One Would Give Him a Bond. Then He Got...](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-bond-disclosure-appeals-court-hankey)** > > An appeals court reduced Trump’s bond by more than 60% after his attorneys claimed it was a “practical impossibility” to pay the full amount. Their failure to disclose a proposal from a billionaire financier may have violated ethics rules. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3247 "2024-04-06T22:36:45Z")
If proven, could that be a criminal offence by his lawyers? A variant of obstruction of justice? Consciously misleading the court on a material fact strikes me as more than just a legal ethics issue. But as always, IANAUSL. Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3248 "2024-04-06T22:50:46Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Since they are going back to court, the judge may also have questions about the fact that Hankey apparently offered, _initially_, to cover the _entire_ amount of the bond. Nothing will come of that. If there are questions about Knight being able to cover the $185m bond, it’s an easy argument that the offer to cover $464m wasn’t real. Trump can spout some BS that they looked into Knight’s finances and knew it wouldn’t fly. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3249 "2024-04-06T22:58:44Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > could that be a criminal offence by his lawyers? More like an ethical violation for failing to be sufficiently candid with the tribunal. Ethical violations, if severe enough, can result in suspension or disbarment. But this doesn’t get there, in my opinion. It’s just more shady dealing. Par for the course, at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3250 "2024-04-06T23:02:12Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Nothing will come of that. If there are questions about Knight being able to cover the $185m bond, it’s an easy argument that the offer to cover $464m wasn’t real. Trump can spout some BS that they looked into Knight’s finances and knew it wouldn’t fly. I don’t know. I read that the specific question regarding the reliability of the bond related to the fact that Knight doesn’t appear to have the liquid assets to both secure the judgment and meet their reserve requirements. Hankey seems extremely unconcerned. So, maybe Hankey’s a nut and a crank, which would be surprising for someone heading a reportedly stable financial firm. Or, the reporting’s accurate and the bond’s worthless. In which case, Trump is in the soup. Or…Hankey’s lack of concern turns out to be reasonable and he has an explanation for why he can cover either amount, some financial detail we’re unaware of. In which case, Trump has some ‘splaining to do about his laments over his inability to secure a bond for the full amount of the judgment. IOW, this just doesn’t seem to be a “nothing will come of it” situation, no matter how it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3251 "2024-04-06T23:29:50Z")
So here we are at the beginning of April. Now there’s a hearing toward the end of April. This shit is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3252 "2024-04-06T23:37:05Z")
The ProPublica article raises the possibility that the offer to cover the full $454M via an appellate bond may have come: - After Trump’s attorneys told the Judge that it wasn’t going to be possible to get a bond for that amount, but - Before the Appeals Court lowered the bond amount to $175M Which means it could be an issue of who knew what, and when, and whether or not they had an affirmative obligation to alert the Court(s) that things had materially changed since their first statement about the $474M being unobtanium. > [@](#): > > Scott Cummings, a legal ethics professor at UCLA’s law school, agreed that there was a potential ethical failure but said Trump’s lawyers could argue that they were not obligated to alert the court. > > “A very narrow reading of this rule would be there is no obligation to report because it wasn’t a false statement at the time,” Cummings said. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3253 "2024-04-06T23:37:37Z")
I don’t think this delays the appeal. It’s a separate matter. Either the bond is approved or they start taking things on 4/23. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3254 "2024-04-06T23:49:01Z")
Will no one rid us of this… Oh, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3255 "2024-04-06T23:55:07Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > When Donald’s lawyers begged for a lower amount, because donald “couldn’t” secure the full judgment total, they may not have been completely candid. That’s very nice phrasing for “They lied” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2024, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3256 "2024-04-07T03:14:24Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > This shit is ridiculous. It’s pretty normal in the court system from what I understand. Our courts generally take a long time. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2024, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3257 "2024-04-07T22:52:25Z")
From what I understand, none of this bullshit is normal. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3258 "2024-04-08T03:20:06Z")
It isn’t. Most institutions that post bonds know what they’re doing. CHUBB for example. Knight doesn’t know what they’re doing. If this bond doesn’t pass muster it’s going to be interesting to see what excuse Trump comes up with next. ---
**Author:** ![Ferris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ferris/32/11573_2.png) [@Ferris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferris)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3259 "2024-04-08T05:35:44Z")
Might be more ‘know what they’re doing is a little dodgy, but are trying to bluff their way through it’. CBS article here has a few details: [https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/donald-trump-175-million-civil-fraud-bond-valid-new-york/](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/donald-trump-175-million-civil-fraud-bond-valid-new-york/) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3260 "2024-04-08T18:50:13Z")
When is a Bond _not_ a Bond? When Donald Trump is involved. We may be a bit short on details here, but it doesn’t even appear that Knight provided Trump with a Bond at all: > **[The Shady Company Backing Trump’s Bond Somehow Just Got Even Shadier](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shady-company-backing-trump-bond-155853187.html)** > > Knight Specialty Insurance isn’t even licensed in New York, among other issues. > [@](#): > > According to the Beast, Trump’s bond accounts for a third of the company’s assets and more than its total surplus funds. Maria T. Vullo, a former New York financial regulator, has called the move to post Trump’s bond “incomprehensible for a carrier to underwrite.” > > The company, for its part, seems aware of its predicament: **The Beast reports that Knight has not legally promised to pay Trump’s penalty if the former president’s appeal is unsuccessful. Instead, the document Knight produced indicates, Trump would still be responsible for paying.** [bolding mine] If true, I expect Engoron’s head to – nigh unto literally – explode at the Bond hearing. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3261 "2024-04-08T19:05:57Z")
Missed the editing window. [**This (8pp PDF)**](https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/452564_2022_PEOPLE_OF_THE_STATE_OF_v_PEOPLE_OF_THE_STATE_OF_BOND_UNDERTAKING_1707.pdf) appears to be the Bond. IANAL, but it sure _looks like_ Knight is promising that – on a decision against him or dismissal of Trump’s appeal – **Trump, et al** , will pay the judgment. To our esteemed attorney Dopers? Am I missing something here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=162) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=164)