# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 165
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3282 "2024-04-09T01:53:45Z")
Rachel maddow had an interesting segment on the billionaire and the company attempting to bond trump. This person/company is more like the loanshark on the corner than a legitimate company. > **[Trump’s $175 Million Bond Is Even Shadier Than It Looks](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-dollar175-million-bond-is-even-shadier-than-it-looks?ref=home?ref=home)** > > New information shows that the insurance company that swooped in and bailed out Trump with a $175 million bond isn’t on a list of vetted companies—and wrote a bizarre contract. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3283 "2024-04-09T02:18:06Z")
Paywalled. Relevant quotes? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3284 "2024-04-09T02:23:32Z")
See … > [@NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3267): > > The [Daily Beast article](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-dollar175-million-bond-is-even-shadier-than-it-looks) appears to be paywalled, but here’s an excerpt: So, unless the Daily Beast really screwed up on their homework here … ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3285 "2024-04-09T13:52:00Z")
In his interview with CBS last week, Knight Specialty’s president asserted that the company has more than $1 billion in “equity.” The bond it posted on Thursday also included a financial snapshot of a second corporate entity, the similarly named Knight Insurance Company LTD, which lists $1 billion in “surplus to policy holders.” The document seems to suggest that the smaller company is somehow strengthened by the existence of the larger one. But only the smaller company is actually listed on the bond agreement. In reality, though, a strict reading of “[Bond No. 350588](https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/452564_2022_PEOPLE_OF_THE_STATE_OF_v_PEOPLE_OF_THE_STATE_OF_BOND_UNDERTAKING_1707.pdf)” shows that even the smaller company isn’t technically on the hook for paying out the $175 million if higher courts ultimately cement his loss to the AG. Buried in the typical legalese of the contract is the phrase: “Knight Specialty Insurance Company… does hereby… undertake that if the judgment… is dismissed… Donald J. Trump… shall pay… the sum directed.” the knight people are playing with the 2 companies (look at our big company over here) and are not securing anything. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3286 "2024-04-09T14:08:56Z")
If this is so, doesn’t Knight get eviscerated by the court? Trump, too, if they deem it a conspiracy to defraud? Can anyone (not Trump, that is) be that arrogantly stupid? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3287 "2024-04-09T14:25:03Z")
Click on the link to the video “Bank with a checkered past…” > **[Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC | Watch Rachel Maddow Live](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show)** > > More about the MSNBC Rachel Maddow Show airing weeknights at 9 PM. Watch Rachel Maddow tonight or online with updated video & episodes at MSNBC. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3288 "2024-04-09T14:43:03Z")
rachel maddow outlined how this company and the person at the top used outrageous interest rates, scamming calls, and fraudulent practices to become rich. just the type of company trump would love. stratocaster, i don’t believe things will go well for team trump during the hearing this month. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3289 "2024-04-09T14:47:15Z")
If the bond is rejected and James starts seizing Trump’s assets, can she go for the whole $454m now, or is she limited to the $175m bond amount? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3290 "2024-04-09T14:48:36Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Buried in the typical legalese of the contract is the phrase: “Knight Specialty Insurance Company… does hereby… undertake that if the judgment… is dismissed… Donald J. Trump… shall pay… the sum directed.” So it seems this “bond arrangement” is simply a piece of paper from a company without enough assets assuring the court that Trump promises to pay. And saying “look over here at this other company not written on the piece of paper that has money” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3291 "2024-04-09T14:51:03Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > If the bond is rejected and James starts seizing Trump’s assets, can she go for the whole $454m now, or is she limited to the $175m bond amount? $175m. The appeals court said that that’s all that was needed. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3292 "2024-04-09T14:53:19Z")
You sure about that? ISTM that – while the _bond_ was reduced – the Judgment wasn’t. I thought the Judgment stood/stands at $454 million. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3293 "2024-04-09T14:53:53Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > > [@TroutMan](#): > > > > If the bond is rejected and James starts seizing Trump’s assets, can she go for the whole $454m now, or is she limited to the $175m bond amount? > > $175m. The appeals court said that that’s all that was needed. I’m not sure. They said that was all that was needed for the bond to stay execution, but they didn’t reduce the judgment (they haven’t addressed that issue yet, and won’t for some time). ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3294 "2024-04-09T14:55:12Z")
He only has to put up the lessor amount during the appeal. It doesn’t matter if it’s a bond or from him. If the appeal fails, they collect the rest. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3295 "2024-04-09T15:01:01Z")
I think the most recent discussion on this thread is about the possibility that Trump never actually posted a proper appeal bond based on a number of factors, including Knight’s: inadequate capitalization, non-licensure in NY, and wording that doesn’t actually commit Knight (the surety) to pay, but rather reiterates that the Defendants, themselves, will pay. There’s a fair bit of reason to believe that – either by ignorance or malice – a proper bond was NOT posted. Which – if it IS the case – could nullify the stay on the State executing its judgment and collecting from Trump. And I think the judgment still stands at $454 million. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3296 "2024-04-09T15:07:25Z")
The judgment stands at the larger number. He only has to put up the smaller number while the appeal is ongoing. This was decided before the bond was known or decided. In order to appeal you need to put the judgment amount in escrow. It can be from you or a bond. The appeal said that he only had to put the smaller amount in escrow, from him directly or a bond. How he does it isn’t relevant. If he can’t secure a proper bond, it comes from him. If he loses on appeal, they collect the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3297 "2024-04-09T15:13:34Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > In order to appeal you need to put the judgment amount in escrow. No, you can appeal anyway, but the state can start seizing your assets if you don’t post the bond. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3298 "2024-04-09T15:18:59Z")
That’s correct. I didn’t explain that well. And in this case it’s for the lower amount until the appeal is completed. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3299 "2024-04-09T15:20:09Z")
In this case, though, it looks like he tried to defraud the court with a specious “bond”. This is not a cut-and-dried case: the act of trying to defraud the court itself could promote an additional criminal charge against him and against Knight as well. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3300 "2024-04-09T15:34:59Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > This is not a cut-and-dried case: the act of trying to defraud the court itself could promote an additional criminal charge against him and against Knight as well. I don’t remember if I mentioned this already (maybe I just thought it), but this all feels like it’s on purpose and specifically in an attempt to create another delay. From Trump’s POV, I see a few ways he could have hoped this would work: 1)Oops, that was worded incorrectly, lets delay things while I get the contract written properly. 2)Oh no, you caught me, lets delay things while the courts decide what to do next. 3)The trial ends, Knight doesn’t pay, Trump won’t pay and it turns into yet another round of lawsuits in an attempt to collect from him. #1 already happened once and I think #3 is going to happen anyway when James starts seizing properties, but I’m sure he’ll be perfectly happy to force her to pry that money out of his hands as well. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3301 "2024-04-09T16:26:34Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Oh no, you caught me, lets delay things while the courts decide what to do next. I don’t think this will happen; this shouldn’t have any real impact on their ability to collect (aside from the current delay until the 22nd). He has already been found liable and already has a judgement against him. If the trial was still occurring I could plausibly see it delaying that in some way but at this point there are only two things left… Appeal and collections, and I’m not sure it will affect either of those. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I think #3 is going to happen anyway when James starts seizing properties …Why? You don’t need to sue to collect from a lawsuit, that would be ridiculous. You’d never be able to collect on any lawsuit and lawsuits wouldn’t mean anything. Because if you need to sue to collect a lawsuit award, then if you win that lawsuit you’d need to sue again to collect on that lawsuit, and on and on into infinity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=164) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=166)