# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 176
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3502 "2024-04-22T20:57:05Z")
It’s all very confusing to me, but my take is that the $175 million stops the state from going after Trump’s assets until the state wins the appeal. Once Trump loses, the issuer of the bond pays $175 million, and the state can then start seizing the assets to make up the balance. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3503 "2024-04-22T21:00:46Z")
This. James is trying to get money owed to NY State, not really trying to get Trump. It doesn’t matter how the State is made whole. The appeal could let the original verdict stand, eliminate the verdict entirely or award the State a lessor amount. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3504 "2024-04-22T21:01:25Z")
My understanding is that the appellate court agreed with Trump’s argument that if the only way to satisfy the full judgment was to start seizing assets, this was an irreversible harm should his appeal on the judgment prevail. This was a compromise, and interestingly, I heard multiple pundits say that this was not a surprise. As unusual as this circumstance is, the courts don’t like to create irreversible harm when an appeal is underway, or that’s my recollection of the expert explanations, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2024, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3505 "2024-04-22T21:15:15Z")
I understand all this stuff about irreversible harm and yada yada. The deal was, put up $175 million and we won’t start seizing your assets right away. Don’t have it? Find someone to put up the bond for you. So, it appears he bought himself a month’s delay by finding some sketchy company who had trouble competently completing the required paperwork, isn’t clearly operating legally in NY, can easily hide assets in the Caymans if things go sideways, and – it turns out – is only guaranteeing that Trump has $175 million in an account that he may very well have had all along. As I said before, I sincerely hope this wheel-spinning didn’t hold up the appeal process. Because AFAICT it was a complete waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3506 "2024-04-23T03:09:35Z")
How many appeals can he drag out on this? Does it go NY Appellate Court → NYSC → Federal District → Federal Circuit → SCotUS ? More importantly, does the stay-on-bond hold through each step if he keeps ~~trumping~~ losing? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3507 "2024-04-23T03:20:48Z")
As I understand it, the action by the NYAG is a pure matter of NY state law, with no federal law or constitutional issue. So it goes : NY Supreme Court (the trial court with Judge Engoron) → the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court of NY (which modified the bond requirement) → the NY Court of Appeals (New York’s highest court, which has not been involved to date). If I’m correct that there is no federal constitutional or statute law involved, there’s no way to get into the federal court system, including the SCOTUS. As always, ISNAUSL, so I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3508 "2024-04-23T13:41:57Z")
As I understand it, the federal court system asserts jurisdiction over matters of interstate commerce, a scope that they interpret _incredibly_ broadly. Perhaps there’s some way they could interpret this case that would allow them to consider an appeal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3509 "2024-04-23T17:43:19Z")
LOL First the appeal more than halves the bond needed, now it seems any rag instead of a bond will do. What clear signals are the judges sending him? Attaboy? My life for you master? This is not looking good. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3510 "2024-04-23T18:12:14Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > there’s no way to get into the federal court system Some cases get into the federal courts and up to SCotUS even though there was no federal law involved. I think _Miranda_ was purely a local matter, but they took it to the top.        _This decision is confuddling my god-given fifth right to MY STUFF! It is right there in the Constipation of Indeclarity: “Pur∫uit of Glarpine∫s”._ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3511 "2024-04-23T18:39:46Z")
That was a federal constitutional claim. Defence argued that the due process guarantee of the 5th Amendment, which was applied to the states by the14th Amendment, required what became known as the Miranda warning. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3512 "2024-04-23T18:47:08Z")
Right, but the original case involved no federal law. Miranda’s lawyers formulated an appeal that made it all the way to the supreme court. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3513 "2024-04-23T18:52:49Z")
Sure, but that’s why I included both federal law and federal constitutional law in my first response: > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If I’m correct that there is no federal constitutional or statute law involved ---
**Author:** ![Steven\_Maven](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steven_maven/32/3272_2.png) [@Steven\_Maven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steven_Maven)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3514 "2024-04-23T19:21:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Could be worse. Could have been the “John Barron Bond Service and Car Wash” Could have been even worse than that: Four Seasons Surety Bond Holding Corp, LLC. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3515 "2024-04-23T21:37:24Z")
This case, in actuality, has no federal issue. But Trump’s team could, of course, claim that it has some federal issue. At which point some federal court would have to decide whether Trump’s claim was correct, and thereby decide whether to take up the case. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3516 "2024-04-23T21:43:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This case, in actuality, has no federal issue The amount of punitive damages can always be raised as a federal due process issue. The Court has made a mess of the issue. I’m not saying SCOTUS will take it (it would be discretionary, like almost all their cases). ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3517 "2024-04-23T22:30:40Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > The Court has made a mess of the issue. Do you mean the SCOTUS has made a mess of the federal due process issue, or that NY has made a mess of the punitive damages issue? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3518 "2024-04-23T22:34:39Z")
I mean the US Supreme Court has made a mess of the federal due process standard for review of a state court punitive damage award. So, Trump’s team could certainly argue with a straight face that the “fines” in this case violate federal due process. I do not believe they would be successful, however. Okay, I just read up on the judgment. The entire amount was disgorgement, and not “punitive.” **Ignore everything I said.** It would be hard to construct a federal due process argument here. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3519 "2024-04-23T22:40:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It would be hard to construct a federal due process argument here. But not impossible. I agree that this SCOTUS has certainly made a mess of what qualifies as a case worth taking on. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2024, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3520 "2024-04-24T00:12:50Z")
SCotUS has made a dog’s breakfast of the reputation of the US Supreme Court and are in a dangerous position. They are supposed to be able to make difficult rulings without having to be concerned about public opinion, but, at this point, it looks like they have gone far afield and perverted their original mandate. If a ruling is issued in the next few months that appears to arbitrarily favor Individual-ONE, there could be severe electoral backlash. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/3521 "2024-04-24T03:27:18Z")
Yeah, Alito couldn’t be elected dog catcher! Wait. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=175) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=177)