# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/341 "2023-09-28T11:58:28Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > > > Gotta love a ruling that quotes the Marx brothers in the footnotes. I do enjoy good footnotes. > > PSA: Footnote 9, on page 21 of the .pdf. Would you just go ahead and post the quote itself? I’m looking at page 21 of the pdf and don’t see footnotes on that page or any page. Where are the footnotes? Help? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/342 "2023-09-28T12:11:03Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > , 7 hours of him bragging, confessing and say stupid shit. Thank you for this, it’s gold. My favorite line of his so far: “We have the Mona Lisas of properties.” So… smaller than you expected and kind of underwhelming in person? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/343 "2023-09-28T12:33:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Would you just go ahead and post the quote itself? I’m looking at page 21 of the pdf and don’t see footnotes on that page or any page. Where are the footnotes? Help? Agreed that it shoulda just been posted–it’s a little annoying to make coy references to it–but I have no trouble finding it: > [@](#): > > This instant action is essentially a “document case.” As detailed _infra_, the documents here clearly contain fraudulent validations that defendants used in business, satisfying OAG’s burden to establish liability as a matter of law against defendants. Defendants’ respond that: the documents do not say what they say; that there is no such thing as “objective” value; and that, essentially, the Court should not believe its own eyes.9 > > 9 As Chico Marx, playing Chicolini, says to Margaret Dumont, playing Mrs. Gloria Teasdale, in “Duck Soup,” “well, who ya gonna believe, me or your own eyes?” ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/344 "2023-09-28T12:34:39Z")
You know, in a lot of the more cut throat areas of the business world, the ability to lie, cheat, steal, and deceive another is not only part of the game, but is considered an art. T can’t seem to understand that that is not the case overall. He’s bragging about being the best con man while forgetting that he’s in trouble for conning people. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/345 "2023-09-28T12:40:02Z")
So, my read of the last few posts is that Trump is claiming that, since he made it clear that his valuations are fraudulent, then it should be OK? And, the judge said, look, you made it crystal clear that these valuations are fraudulent, so I find in favor of the State? And, now, Trump is doubling down and saying, look, I told you I was a fraud, what’s the issue? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/346 "2023-09-28T13:24:40Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > He’s bragging about being the best con man while forgetting that he’s in trouble for conning people. Honestly, all I can think of is this conversation from _The Good Place_: **Chidi:** So your job was to defraud the elderly. Sorry, the _sick_ and elderly. **Eleanor:** But I was very good at it. I was the top salesperson five years running. **Chidi:** Okay, but that’s worse. I mean, you… you do get how that’s worse, right? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/347 "2023-09-28T14:00:15Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > since he made it clear that his valuations are fraudulent, then it should be OK? He’s saying that his disclaimer means everything preceding it was negated and therefore fraud was impossible. Like tearing into somebody, saying “no offense” at the end, and being confused that anybody is mad. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/348 "2023-09-28T14:01:23Z")
The old “I was just _joking_!” defense writ large, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/349 "2023-09-28T14:02:39Z")
Could a legal person talk about the “objecting to the form” objections? I see on the Internet that the purpose is to object without leading the witness or otherwise injecting themselves into the deposition, but what’s the practical effect of all these objections after the fact? Will each one be reviewed later to determine whether certain lines of questioning can be allowed as evidence? Is it just a giant COR (cover our asses) for the defending attorneys? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/350 "2023-09-28T14:42:45Z")
2 posts were merged into an existing topic: [What happens if Trump is indicted in Georgia? (Indicted on August 14, 2023)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1663) ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/352 "2023-09-28T14:32:54Z")
Of all the people who might try the “I’m too stupid to have committed fraud” defense, Eric Trump is the one I’d most likely believe. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/353 "2023-09-28T14:34:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > > > Gotta love a ruling that quotes the Marx brothers in the footnotes. I do enjoy good footnotes. > > PSA: Footnote 9, on page 21 of the .pdf. I don’t see it. On page 29 of the .pdf I assume was being referenced, I only see footnote 24. Can you post the footnote so we can all see it? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/354 "2023-09-28T14:35:14Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Can you post the footnote so we can all see it? See post 342. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/355 "2023-09-28T14:36:47Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > He really believes that he can’t get in trouble if he just puts all his evil out there for everyone to see. “I’ve shown you how terrible I am. Anything that comes from that is not my fault.” Ah yes, the rarely used, undefeatable Otter Defense. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/MYQCb3qrBpo/hqdefault.jpg "Flounder You F ked Up You Trust Us") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYQCb3qrBpo) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/356 "2023-09-28T14:39:26Z")
> [@What happens if Trump is indicted in Georgia? (Indicted on August 14, 2023)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-happens-if-trump-is-indicted-in-georgia-indicted-on-august-14-2023/979928/1663): > > Can someone a lot smarter than me look at this response from Jim Jordan and tell me if he has a shot with any of these? > [@Gyrate](#): > > Well, IANAL but I’m pretty sure the answer is “no”. The crux of it appears to be the spurious argument that the committee has standing to intervene because it has the right to oversee such cases in the interest of “informing future legislation”. Which is a desperate, if not outright stupid, argument. > > In my inexpert opinion, pretty much every legal assertion put forth in that letter appears to be equally tenuous if not moreso. Willis has a far stronger argument that the committee is politically motivated than the other way around (largely because it’s true). **Moderating:** Both of those are unrelated to the thread topic, and belong in the Georgia thread, so I’m moving them. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/357 "2023-09-28T14:40:27Z")
Never mind. Answered by @RitterSport. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/358 "2023-09-28T14:40:47Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > They were claiming yesterday that since Trump paid the loans back, lying about the worth of the assets wasn’t fraud. Really. And that conveniently ignores the fact that there were other victims of these frauds. He played games with his tax valuations, so paid less tax, and also used them to get lower insurance rates, so the insurance companies were harmed. It’s like being charged with murder, arson and littering, and then claiming you’re absolved because you went back with a garbage can. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/359 "2023-09-28T14:41:50Z")
[quote=“Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness, post:343, topic:971991, full:true”] Agreed that it shoulda just been posted–it’s a little annoying to make coy references to it–but I have no trouble finding it: > [@](#): > > This instant action is essentially a “document case.” As detailed _infra_, the documents here clearly contain fraudulent validations that defendants used in business, satisfying OAG’s burden to establish liability as a matter of law against defendants. Defendants’ respond that: the documents do not say what they say; that there is no such thing as “objective” value; and that, essentially, the Court should not believe its own eyes.9 > > 9 As Chico Marx, playing Chicolini, says to Margaret Dumont, playing Mrs. Gloria Teasdale, in “Duck Soup,” “well, who ya gonna believe, me or your own eyes?” Reposting. Note, Chico Marx was one of the Marx Brothers. ETA: I screwed up the coding somehow, but it’s all there anyway. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/360 "2023-09-28T16:05:29Z")
I’m sorry for the mix-up raventhief. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/361 "2023-09-28T17:00:07Z")
apologies, when i wrote that i couldn’t copy and paste. thank you left hand of dorkness for the quote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=19)