# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/382 "2023-09-29T20:12:52Z")
Thanks Buck. Interesting reading. This excerpt from the judgment: > [@](#): > > “In defendants’ world: rent regulated apartments are worth the same as unregulated apartments; restricted land is worth the same as unrestricted land; restrictions can evaporate into thin air …” he wrote. > > “That is a fantasy world, not the real world,” he wrote. From the WaPo article: > [@](#): > > “The primary reason the judge imposed this is because he felt the remedies put in place so far haven’t been enough and that in his view President Trump continued to inflate the value of his properties even after the start of the litigation,” said Robert G. Heim, a partner at the New York law firm of Tarter Krinsky & Drogin, who has closely followed the Trump case. “And it just escalated to the point where the judge felt there was no other remedy that could be imposed short of such a drastic, drastic remedy.” > … > As a result of Tuesday’s decision, the New York Supreme Court bench trial that is expected to begin Monday will be focused on whether specific illegal conduct occurred in the course of committing the larger fraud. That alleged conduct, which falls under the state’s penal law, involves the falsification of business records and financial statements, as well as fraudulent dealings with insurance companies. > … > In her lawsuit, James alleged that Trump inflated his net worth by billions of dollars and knowingly exaggerated the size and quality of his properties on his financial statements. For example, she said that Trump claimed his triplex apartment at Trump Tower had 30,000 square feet when it was actually 10,006 square feet, which enabled him to vastly overstate its value. Trump’s accounting firm, Mazars USA, said in a letter last year that it could no longer stand behind the statements and cut ties with Trump. What’s 20,000 square feet between friends? A rounding error, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/383 "2023-09-29T23:33:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What’s 20,000 square feet between friends? A rounding error, at best. Surely Trumps Saudi friends would have loaned him the spare 20,000 square feet. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/384 "2023-09-29T23:50:36Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > If anyone happens to see a link to today’s order, could you please post it? I’ve checked all the major news outlets. If you meant the September 28 order dismissing his request to delay the trial, [it’s here;](https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=HrisP4CiM1mkNQMeP1dISw==) quite short. Decision of the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court, 1st Department; 5 justices of the Court issued the order. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/385 "2023-09-30T00:17:53Z")
The nice thing about seeing the actual order is that the media description of it as being “two pages” is correct but misleading. Almost all of it is just _pro forma_ legalese. The part that actually matters is this, which is set out with no further explanation deemed necessary: > It is ordered that the motion for a stay of trial is denied ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/386 "2023-09-30T00:40:04Z")
I think it’s worth mentioning that in NY State “The Supreme Court” is not the highest appeals court (although it does have an appellate division). It’s basically just ……court, it hears most original civil and criminal cases except those that fall under the purview of another specialized court, such as family court or small claims. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/387 "2023-09-30T00:42:59Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The nice thing about seeing the actual order is that the media description of it as being “two pages” is correct but misleading. Almost all of it is just _pro forma_ legalese. The part that actually matters is this, which is set out with no further explanation deemed necessary: This is pretty standard for a formal order, in my experience. Not every order comes with reasons. Maybe it’s different in NY, but I doubt it. This seems pretty straightforward for an order. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/388 "2023-09-30T00:50:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > This is pretty standard for a formal order, in my experience. Not every order comes with reasons. Maybe it’s different in NY, but I doubt it. It’s not different in NY; legal experts in NY have said the same. It’s just that to this layman pup, what essentially comes down to a one-line denial tends to read like: “Fuck you, Trumpie”. A sentiment that I admire! 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/389 "2023-09-30T01:23:32Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I think it’s worth mentioning that in NY State “The Supreme Court” is not the highest appeals court (although it does have an appellate division). That’s an older model, inherited from the English court system. Four Canadian provinces and two of the territories have supreme court as the main trial court. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/390 "2023-09-30T12:54:03Z")
Yes! A factoid I learned from watching every episode of _Law & Order_. _I knew my TV law degree would come in handy one day._ ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/391 "2023-10-01T07:02:14Z")
> **[Melania Trump could save Donald's New York business](https://www.newsweek.com/melania-trump-save-business-nyc-1831044)** > > The former first lady could help her husband hold onto the real estate empire that launched him into fame. This article suggests Trump could comply with the order to dissolve his businesses by having his wife Melania and/or daughter Ivanka set up their own companies and transfer everything to one or the other or both. This can’t really be true, can it? The courts will see through an obvious dodge that changes the name at the top of the letterhead but leaves the same people inherently in control, right? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/392 "2023-10-01T12:16:08Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Trump’s accounting firm, Mazars USA, said in a letter last year that it could no longer stand behind the statements and cut ties with Trump. What does “no longer stand behind” mean?. Does it mean that the licensed accounting firm once issued statements (valuations of real estate) which they knew were fraudulent? And which they did stand behind,until they got caught? That seems like they are admitting to criminal activity. What am I not understanding? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/393 "2023-10-01T12:44:19Z")
See February 2022 discussion in, e.g., [this thread starting at about post #4530.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/4530) Details: As JohnT noted in his post #4537 in that thread, > [@JohnT](#): > > Mazars has told the world: > > 1. Trump’s financials cannot be trusted. > 2. … because of information provided by the NY AG on January 18th, 2022. > 3. (Implication being that the NY AG has credible evidence of fraud and criminal wrongdoing.) > 4. They try to weasel by saying the statements, in toto, are likely correct… it’s just the details that are worrisome. lololol. > 5. It ain’t our fault! Look! We did an internal review and everything! > 6. Regardless, given all this, we just can’t work with you. There are some conflict issues, Donnie, and you’re just a little _too_ hot. > > The ‘nonwaivable conflict of interest’ line sticks out to me. The nonwaivable conflict of interest is not with another, more valuable, client, the conflict is with the _law!_ The legal issues are the conflict of interest, that’s why they’re unwaivable! 😂 The NY AG has them dead to rights, and Mazars is saying ‘uh, to survive as a firm, we can’t declare ourselves to be on the side of the criminals.’ > > And they’re right. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/394 "2023-10-01T13:58:21Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > What does “no longer stand behind” mean?. > > Does it mean that the licensed accounting firm once issued statements (valuations of real estate) which they knew were fraudulent? And which they did stand behind,until they got caught? That seems like they are admitting to criminal activity. > What am I not understanding? What they are trying to say seems obvious to me: > We too were fooled by trump. We did nothing wrong, he was just soooo much sneakier than we knew and we fell for it. We did the usual due diligence expected of any accounting firm; we’re not expected to be criminal investigators assuming every word is a lie and only accepting something as true after extensive and incontrovertible 3rd-party corroboration. Oops. > > Fool me once shame on you = trump. But we won’t be fooled again; we’ve stopped doing all work for him so there won’t be fool me twice shame on me/us. See? We’re the good guys here. Don’t tar us with his brush. Now whether any of that pleading is actually true, or is simply them as knowing criminals or at least nudge nudge wink wink passive accomplices now trying disingenuously to deflect all blame is a very very different question. And not one anyone can answer until / unless there’s a thorough criminal forensic investigation of that accounting firm. Which may well be in the offing. But it’s hardly surprising they’re trying this gambit. Whether it will work or not in court or in the court of public opinion remains to be seen. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/395 "2023-10-01T14:09:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Whether it will work or not in court or in the court of public opinion remains to be seen. Apparently the Mazars accountants [have already been denounced by the Trump Organization,](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-taxes-lawyers-called-accounting-firm-negligent-but-irs-believed-it-ensured-taxes-accurate/) for… being idiots enough to believe the information they got from the Trump Organization: > [@](#): > > The accounting firm, Mazars USA, is one of the country’s largest, and it worked for Trump for decades until February of this year [2022], when it cut ties with the former president and his company. In the months since, Trump and attorneys for his company have harshly criticized the firm’s work. […] > > During the trial, a Trump Organization attorney claimed during closing arguments that a Mazars accountant “failed in his job” to spot wrongdoing from company executives. […] > > Trump on Nov. 18 summarized his defense team’s stance on Mazars, in a post on his social media platform Truth Social. > > “The highly paid accounting firm should have routinely picked these things up - we relied on them. VERY UNFAIR!” Trump wrote. > > During her closing argument on Dec. 1, Trump Organization attorney Susan Necheles said Bender “was either totally negligent or he turned a blind eye.” […] > > Mazars and Bender did not reply to requests for comment, but during the Trump Organization’s trial, prosecutors showed an agreement between the company and Mazars in which the accounting firm stipulated that its work “does not include any procedures designed to detect errors, irregularities, illegal acts, including fraud or defalcations, should any exist.” “Waaaaah!! Mazars didn’t do their due diligence to make sure that we weren’t being shameless crooks and liars! It’s THEIR fault we fraudulated! VERY UNFAIR!!” Can’t make this shit up. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/396 "2023-10-01T14:18:53Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > “Waaaaah!! Mazars didn’t do their due diligence to make sure that we weren’t being shameless crooks and liars! It’s THEIR fault we fraudulated! VERY UNFAIR!!” > > Can’t make this shit up. Translation: > We paid them to be our impenetrable shield and now they’re running away leaving us naked and defenseless. We want a refund. Or better yet, we want our human shield back. Sometimes the trumpets can be honest, brutally so. You / we just need to learn to read the coded language. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/397 "2023-10-01T14:28:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s THEIR fault we fraudulated! What is this thing called a fraudulator? Can I buy one? Is it like a calculator but with missing keys, burnt out leds, and intermittent faults? ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/398 "2023-10-01T14:51:44Z")
It’s a calculator that always gives you the answer you want no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/399 "2023-10-02T14:13:20Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > This can’t really be true, can it? The courts will see through an obvious dodge that changes the name at the top of the letterhead but leaves the same people inherently in control, right? The court appointed a receiver to handle the dissolution of the businesses. One of the jobs of a receiver will be to make sure the business debts are paid off, by selling the assets for fair market value. Assuming there are penalties from the upcoming trial, it would seem unlikely that a receiver would allow the business assets to pass to Trump’s wife or daughter for less than full value. But, if Ivanka is the highest bidder, I don’t know that there is anything in the law or the judge’s order that would prevent her from taking over. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/400 "2023-10-02T14:45:07Z")
The Kushners could probably afford it, but I’m not seeing a benefit for them to do so; taking on Trump businesses would shine a spotlight on them and their own businesses are hardly squeaky clean. And it’s not like family loyalty is actually a thing with them. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/401 "2023-10-02T15:06:35Z")
I can’t imagine it would be a great investment. If Trump loses in 2024, or is convicted in at least one of his trials, having the TRUMP sign on the side of a building is going to be even more toxic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=21)