# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/522 "2023-10-03T19:52:34Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > [@Aspenglow](#): > > > > But affirmatively stating he’s going to take the stand implies… > > Even after all this time, people still think a promise from Trump carries some meaning. > > Trump has said he will testify. This does not mean he will testify. I just wanted to mention that since this is a civil trial, the court can make negative inferences from his refusal to testify. But having read his deposition, which was a 400+ page confession, I still don’t think he’ll be doing himself any favors, especially since there’s no jury to sway. I’m still not convinced that the failure to request a jury trial was unintentional, since the jury pool would be drawn from Manhattan. I think he might have thought they’d play judge roulette and maybe land a sympathetic judge, but they lost that bet big time. So now they’re screaming UNFAIR. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/523 "2023-10-03T19:55:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > In my orientation with new articling students, one of my top ranked tips is : “Don’t have two standards of politeness, one for the judge and counsel, and a different standard for the court staff or secretaries. Use the same standard of politeness for everyone.” That was superb advice. Let’s face it: Clerks are just the waitresses of the courtroom. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/524 "2023-10-03T19:57:44Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > In my orientation with new articling students, one of my top ranked tips is : “Don’t have two standards of politeness, one for the judge and counsel, and a different standard for the court staff or secretaries. Use the same standard of politeness for everyone.” My first time in a courtroom, when I was still a law student volunteering with Student Legal Services, I was absolutely awed by everything going on. I remember thinking, “I’d better be polite and pleasant to _everybody_ who works here.” I’ve done that ever since, and it has worked well. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/525 "2023-10-03T20:09:49Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I’m still not convinced that the failure to request a jury trial was unintentional, since the jury pool would be drawn from Manhattan. I think he might have thought they’d play judge roulette and maybe land a sympathetic judge, but they lost that bet big time. So now they’re screaming UNFAIR. Am I reading you correctly - the reason this isn’t a jury trial is because Trump ('s attorneys) failed to request one? I thought it might have to do with them requesting a summary judgement (which then caused it to be a non-jury trial based on procedure). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/526 "2023-10-03T20:13:04Z")
There’s a whole thread trying to get to the bottom of that. The answer is unclear. > [@Trump's trial in NY for business fraud--why is there no jury?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-trial-in-ny-for-business-fraud-why-is-there-no-jury/990999): > > Google told me repeatedly that it’s a bench trial, but I couldn’t find why it’s a bench trial… So,(even though I’m sure it’s been discussed before,) will somebody please explain to me? It seems to me that in all of his upcoming trials, the facts are clearly not in his favor, so Trump’s best hope is to pray that the jury has one MAGA cult believer who refuses to look at the facts, and votes “not guilty”. I think all his other trials will be with juries…so why did he not demand a jury for this … ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/527 "2023-10-03T20:14:28Z")
Both things can be simultaneously true. AIUI, the only issue that was qualified to be heard by a jury was the issue of fraud, which the judge took care of via his ruling on Plaintiff’s motion for summary judgment. All remaining issues could only be heard by a judge, because they are issues of equity, not eligible for jury determination. What’s interesting, though, is that there was no request for a jury trial prior to the judge’s ruling on the motion for summary judgment. To me, that leans toward an “oops.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/528 "2023-10-03T20:14:35Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Am I reading you correctly - the reason this isn’t a jury trial is because Trump ('s attorneys) failed to request one? I thought it might have to do with them requesting a summary judgement (which then caused it to be a non-jury trial based on procedure). Trump’s team had a choice to request a jury trial. Ticked the wrong box by mistake, or ticked the “judge only” box deliberately, depending on who you listen to. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/529 "2023-10-03T20:21:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Eventually, I’d like to see him wheeled into the courtroom Hannibal Lecter-style, with a literal gag across his mouth. Sauce for the goose… [![](https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_1280,f_auto,q_auto,fl_lossy/wp-cms/uploads/2017/06/p-1-the-courtroom-drawings-that-captured-history-1.jpg) ](https://images.fastcompany.net/image/upload/w_1280,f_auto,q_auto,fl_lossy/wp-cms/uploads/2017/06/p-1-the-courtroom-drawings-that-captured-history-1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/530 "2023-10-03T20:23:39Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > But affirmatively stating he’s going to take the stand implies he intends to say something more than, “Fifth,” in response to every question. IANAL but I think you cant do that so much in a Civil trial. There are limits. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/531 "2023-10-03T20:26:19Z")
What limits do you think those are? You believe he can be compelled to incriminate himself just because he’s being tried in a civil matter? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/532 "2023-10-03T20:33:57Z")
[https://www.advocatemagazine.com/article/2016-october/pleading-the-fifth-in-civil-cases](https://www.advocatemagazine.com/article/2016-october/pleading-the-fifth-in-civil-cases) _The party or witness who wishes to invoke the right must assert the privilege as to particular questions asked or other evidence sought. A blanket refusal to appear or testify is not sufficient._… _Any delay or failure to assert the privilege may result in waiver thereof. This applies to responses to interrogatories, requests for admissions, document productions, and depositions. (See, e.g., Brown v. Sup.Ct. (Boorstin ) (1986) 180 Cal.App.3d 701, 712 in which Plaintiff served interrogatories inquiring about matters for which Defendant was facing criminal charges. Defendant failed to respond within the time permitted. His later attempts to avoid discovery by claiming self-incrimination were unavailing. The court held “Defendants had ample opportunity to timely raise their Fifth Amendment objection and failed to do so, thereby waiving their privilege.”_ And _While in a criminal procedure, the court must instruct the jury that it cannot draw an inference of guilt from a defendant’s failure to testify about facts relevant to his case, (Griffin v. California (1965) 80 U.S. 609). In civil cases, “the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” (Baxter v. Palmigiano (1976) 425 U.S. 308, 318.)_ _Whereas the privilege may be invoked by a civil litigant. (Segretti v. State Bar (1976) 15 Cal.3d 878, 126 Cal.Rptr. 793; Alvarez v. Sanchez (1984) 158 Cal.App.3d 709.) It does not provide for protection against civil penalties, and in a civil case, a witness or party may be required either to waive the privilege or accept the civil consequences of silence if he or she does exercise it. (Blackburn v. Superior Court, (1993) 21 Cal.App.4th 414.)_ So, like I said, IANAL but in Civil cases, things change. Maybe one of our SDMB legal eagles can explain better. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/533 "2023-10-03T20:36:26Z")
But I’m not saying he can assert it to prevent consequences in the civil action. I’m saying he can assert it to not incriminate himself for criminal actions – whether charged or uncharged. At present, there are no criminal charges pending against him for these actions. That doesn’t mean there can’t or won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/534 "2023-10-03T20:38:35Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > That doesn’t mean there can’t or won’t be. Do you expect criminal charges will follow this civil case once it has concluded against Trump? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/535 "2023-10-03T20:38:58Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > But I’m not saying he can assert it to prevent consequences in the civil action. I’m saying he can assert it to not incriminate himself for criminal actions – whether charged or uncharged. At present, there are no criminal charges pending against him for these actions. I was just replying to your post- > [@Aspenglow](#): > > But affirmatively stating he’s going to take the stand implies he intends to say something more than, “Fifth,” in response to every question. > [@DrDeth](#): > > IANAL but I think you cant do that so much in a Civil trial. There are limits. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/536 "2023-10-03T20:40:21Z")
A very quick read – not paywalled for me – that seems to answer the 5th Amendment/Civil Suit question pretty concisely: > **[Can Trump take the Fifth in a civil case? (Published 2022)](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/10/nyregion/trump-fifth-civil-case.html)** > > The constitutional amendment establishes protection against self-incrimination in criminal cases, but it can be invoked in other contexts. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/537 "2023-10-03T20:40:38Z")
if he goes full “you can’t handle the truth”, then yes, there will be charges. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/538 "2023-10-03T20:40:47Z")
I think they could, but I doubt they will. It’s a lot of resources for any state agency to throw at a guy who is already going to be completely hamstrung by federal and other state criminal matters. Alvin Bragg already declined to prosecute these matters criminally once before. He _might_ change his mind based on the outcome of the civil case, but I think it’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/539 "2023-10-03T20:42:55Z")
My take on that question was in **[post #285](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/285)** above. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/540 "2023-10-03T20:55:58Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > A very quick read – not paywalled for me – that seems to answer the 5th Amendment/Civil Suit question pretty concisely: Paywalled for me. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/541 "2023-10-03T21:00:24Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > if he goes full “you can’t handle the truth”, then yes, there will be charges. That’s what I was wondering: what would he have to say, if he chooses to testify, that will initiate a re-consideration of criminal charges? Will anything short of explicitly admitting to committing fraud do the trick? How far can he go and still have Bragg concluding, “Nope, not enough there.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=28)