# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/542 "2023-10-03T21:07:17Z")
The Time article may have been a _bit_ more expansive, but the nub is **[here](https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-rights/fifth-amendment-right-against-self-incrimination.html)**: > The Fifth Amendment protections apply to civil cases too. Witnesses may plead the Fifth if testimony would open them up to criminal charges. However, they do not enjoy the same protections against jury bias concerning liability in civil cases. This means that a jury can make an adverse inference when a defendant decides not to testify in a civil trial. Given your background, particularly, I think it’s not so hard to imagine something that one could be compelled to say in a _civil_ trial (if the 5th didn’t apply) that could open them up to _criminal_ exposure. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/543 "2023-10-03T21:10:13Z")
Just keep in mind that we’re _not_ talking about _only_ Alvin Bragg. The IRS and the US Attorney (Southern District) have basically all been looped in on this from the very earliest days of Letitia James taking action. > **[New York Attorney General Letitia James says Trump committed crimes, asks...](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/21/trump-criminal-referral-sent-to-prosecutors-and-irs-by-letitia-james.html)** > > James announced a civil lawsuit accusing Trump, his adult children, his business and others of submitting years of fraudulent financial statements. > [@](#): > > “We believe the conduct alleged in this action also violates federal criminal law,” James said, “including issuing false statements to financial institutions and bank fraud.” > > “We are referring those criminal violations that we have uncovered to the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, and the Internal Revenue Service,” James said at a press conference. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/544 "2023-10-03T21:42:48Z")
A little more on Trump’s Truth Social post that led to the gag order: > **[Trump goes after fraud suit judge's law clerk during trial and calls her...](https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/that-is-disgraceful-trump-goes-after-fraud-suit-judges-law-clerk-on-truth-social-mid-trial-and-calls-her-schumers-girlfriend/)** > > Trump decided to send a Truth Social post during his New York fraud civil trial attacking the presiding judge's principal law clerk. According to the above source, the post read, “Schumer’s girlfriend, Alison [sic] R. Greenfield, is running this case against me. How disgraceful! This case should be dismissed immediately." The post also has a photo of Allison Greenfield and Chuck Schumer, who appear to be doing nothing more than squeezing into the frame and smiling for the camera. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/545 "2023-10-03T21:50:13Z")
Redditors (and others) are saying that the gag order has no teeth, because no judge is going to move against Trump, but I think this has a better chance of jailing Trump than they think. Trump _made it personal_ against the judge by attacking his staff, and I think that’s going to weigh heavily on the “treat him like anyone else” side if/when Trump does it again. The judge may well be willing to take the historic and personal risk if he thinks he’s protecting the people he entrusts to aid him. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/546 "2023-10-03T21:58:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I hope he graduates to simple assault. Tries to pummel her with his tiny soft baby hands. And is wrestled to the ground. By her, without any help. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/547 "2023-10-03T22:22:19Z")
Maybe its just me but IMHO opinion the only reason Habba is on the case is that she’s attractive. Trump has a tendency to hire people based on their looks and I think this is just another case of that. If she really did make such a major error, what other reason could there be for keeping her on? She doesn’t have a winning record as a Trump mouthpiece. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/548 "2023-10-03T22:25:18Z")
I think she is his TV lawyer. Chris Kise is the courtroom lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/549 "2023-10-03T22:51:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I hope he graduates to simple assault. I bet this is what he’s daydreaming about during the trial. [https://youtu.be/QkHqCEu9ogs?t=20](https://youtu.be/QkHqCEu9ogs?t=20) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/550 "2023-10-03T23:03:00Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I think she is his TV lawyer. Yes, Habba is essentially a Public Relations/Press Secretary type person for Trump. I’ve often seen her representing him on TV for cases that she’s not even listed as being counsel for. She basically just repeats the “WITCH HUNT!” gripes on TV as her career. Having a law degree is supposed to give her a veneer of authority when she just repeats his claims. That said, she also represents him in other ways. She signed the paperwork saying that they had complied with requests for sensitive documents in Mar A Lago (which was shown to be false). She has appeared in court in some of his civil cases. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/551 "2023-10-03T23:04:36Z")
She could also be useful for an upcoming “ineffective counsel” defense. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/552 "2023-10-04T00:10:18Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Given your background, particularly, I think it’s not so hard to imagine something that one could be compelled to say in a _civil_ trial (if the 5th didn’t apply) that could open them up to _criminal_ exposur Of course that could occur. Which is why you can use the 5th, but judiciously. You cant agree to take the stand and just say “5th” to every question. If the question might lead you to criminal exposure, then sure, say “I refuse to answer on the grounds…”. But that cite does not address civil courts- > **[Do You Have a Right to Remain Silent in a Civil Case?](https://bc-llp.com/do-you-have-a-right-to-remain-silent-in-a-civil-case/)** > > You may have a right to remain silent in a civil case. An Irvine civil litigation lawyer explains Fifth Amendment protections in civil cases. _The Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate yourself is not restricted only to cases where you are under indictment or actively being prosecuted for a crime. In 1976, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on a case called [McCarthy v. Arndstein](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/266/34/)_.\* Among other holdings, the court ruled\*: “The constitutional privilege against self-incrimination applies to civil proceedings.”\* You must assert the right yourself and indicate you refuse to answer on the grounds your reply may incriminate you.\* _This does NOT mean you can refuse to provide answers to questions because they could lead to a jury finding for the opposing party in the civil litigation. What it means is, if your answers to the questions you are being asked could result in you facing criminal prosecution, you do not have to provide the answers. You also do not need to provide answers if the information you would provide could be enough to lead police to evidence that could be used to incriminate you._ _In 1997, the 11th Circuit court explained in [United States v. Gecas](http://openjurist.org/120/f3d/1419) that the threat of future prosecution must actually be “reasonable, real, and appreciable” in order for you to be justified in asserting your Fifth Amendment right. You cannot simply claim you think you might some day be prosecuted for your answers in order to avoid providing information you have been asked about when you are involved in civil litigation._ _Whether or not there is a credible threat your answers could lead to criminal prosecution is going to vary depending upon the specifics of the case and the questions being asked. An experienced Irvine civil litigation lawyer can advise you on whether you may be able to assert your Fifth Amendment rights when you are asked questions in civil litigation you are involved in._ And unlike a Criminal case, the Jury may use that against the plaintiff. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/553 "2023-10-04T00:59:17Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > “Schumer’s girlfriend, Alison [sic] R. Greenfield, is running this case against me. How disgraceful! This case should be dismissed immediately." But it gets better, he then said (out loud, not on social media) “You saw what was just put out about Schumer and the principal clerk. That is disgraceful” He started a rumor and then repeated it as if it was second hand information. That’s like telling one person the made up rumor that “John is cheating on his wife” and then telling another person that you “heard that John is cheating on his wife”. > [@MikeF](#): > > She doesn’t have a winning record as a Trump mouthpiece. Or…maybe she does. [That’s a ‘sex with trump’ shaming joke, not a slut shaming joke. And just a joke, not actually suggesting it’s happening] ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/554 "2023-10-04T01:06:52Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > He started a rumor and then repeated it as if it was second hand information. As Trump and Faux News _always_ do. Thankfully it seems that the judge here isn’t buying any of that bullshit. My money says that this judge locks Trump up, if only for a night. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/555 "2023-10-04T01:12:28Z")
Someone help me out here please. I imagine the answer is likely no, but is there any reason why a defendant would need to be worried about a biased clerk? Does Engoran’s clerk make suggestions on how he should interpret law? Does she influence what the judge’s decision should be? And, Jesus Christ, my mother just reposted Donny’s Truth tweet with the clerk’s photo and name on her Facebook. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/556 "2023-10-04T01:15:56Z")
It depends. Does a hypothetical defendant want to make sure that his unhinged fanbase (eta: including your mother, sorry) understands that the clerk is likely a Democrat, and therefore unfair? Rigged? Witchhunt? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/557 "2023-10-04T01:21:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > She signed the paperwork saying that they had complied with requests for sensitive documents in Mar A Lago (which was shown to be false). I know it’s hard to keep all the Trump lawyers and Trump litigation straight, but I believe you’re thinking of a different young female lawyer, Christina Bobb, who signed the certificate of compliance with the subpoena. According to the Mar-a-Lago indictment, she was asked to sign it by the senior lawyer on the file, Corcoran, and did so even though she had not been involved in the hunt for the documents listed in the subpoena. One might wonder why the senior lawyer who had been involved in the document hunt delegated that task to a junior lawyer who had not been involved in the document hunt? > **[Trump lawyer told to certify Mar-a-Lago document search she did not conduct](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/10/trump-lawyer-christina-bobb-mar-a-lago-certify-documents)** > > Christina Bobb told justice department on Friday that she signed supposedly complete list of documents at direction of another lawyer, Evan Corcoran As an aside, I used that example for our articling students as well: never, ever sign a certificate of compliance with a legal obligation, unless you have been involved in the process and have personal knowledge that the client has complied. I believe I read somewhere that Ms Bobb has felt it necessary to retain counsel. Could be wrong on that; it’s very difficult to keep this all straight. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/558 "2023-10-04T01:22:26Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Someone help me out here please. I imagine the answer is likely no, but is there any reason why a defendant would need to be worried about a biased clerk? Does Engoran’s clerk make suggestions on how he should interpret law? Does she influence what the judge’s decision should be? No, and she could not make suggestions on what a judge’s decision should be. A clerk acts more in an administrative role—dealing with paperwork, forms, and so on. The clerk looks after the docket in docket court, and calls litigants before the court, but when it comes to acting in any sort of a legal capacity or advising on legal matters—nope. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/559 "2023-10-04T01:24:29Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > That was superb advice. Let’s face it: Clerks are just the waitresses of the courtroom. Who get to go into the backroom with the cook and respond to any questions the cook may have about “how are things going out there?” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/560 "2023-10-04T01:24:46Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I know it’s hard to keep all the Trump lawyers and Trump litigation straight, but I believe you’re thinking of a different young female lawyer, Christina Bobb, who signed the certificate of compliance with the subpoena. I am not. > **[Mar-a-Lago raid shines new light on Trump lawyer filing in NY AG case](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11165807/Trump-lawyer-Alina-Habba-New-York-attorney-general-subpoena.html)** > > Though the investigations are separate, the revelation that Alina Habba performed a 'diligent' search of Trump's office raises new questions about how much exposure top secret files had. > It’s heaped new scrutiny on a months-old court filing in Trump’s New York case that was resurfaced by [Politico](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/31/days-before-mar-a-lago-subpoena-trump-lawyer-claimed-she-scoured-trumps-office-closets-00054369) on Wednesday. > > In it, Habba claimed she looked for Trump Organization financial documents in many of the same places that the Justice Department would later describe finding top secret documents. Different documents, different cases, different female lawyers, same Mar A Lago. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/561 "2023-10-04T01:27:52Z")
Thanks for that; I did not know about that one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=29)