# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/622 "2023-10-06T00:33:06Z")
> [@dougrb](#): > > I bet this is what he’s daydreaming about during the trial. Hey, Donnie. This is real life. There is no kayfabe here. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/623 "2023-10-06T02:07:56Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > As much as Trump cries about this being a sham and a fraud, how often does the NY AG’s office go after business/individuals for this kind of thing? I found this NY Times article from a year ago, which indicates that the New York Attorney General uses this law on a regular basis, to go after large corporations which are not following the law: [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/nyregion/donald-trump-letitia-james-lawsuit.html?unlocked\_article\_code=bmN3A8LMxzuY1T3oXcNhIYmVXB4A29-oCgAlatYmJG0fld\_OCqdKOf0ndXVXT76670FYw5qiHgA55CZn7A\_elVg2ylgAEtdzK2I0gg0zSNxE009QaQtXyiZZlplyRQousJyjw13J3\_lQ2uZsxmRxuEn1VWR1tY-xIxFLdxGz4NlCbBqruQIdqoSSWWXO6yGDkC60itQTACAiJ4j6cKHI98zxmVAxeR4QNn9x8WxUufeK7803uT61Lum-QimXTQtMqTB\_FSdEObLJ6xX14Gzbsk66NhYgDDtnRdTAdFNKT87T4EiVXm\_tEc0k7doZQy\_1XY8vtWD8wEjjx0PqXVRb6TGeCfhri5SlxZTMtTDs&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/23/nyregion/donald-trump-letitia-james-lawsuit.html?unlocked_article_code=bmN3A8LMxzuY1T3oXcNhIYmVXB4A29-oCgAlatYmJG0fld_OCqdKOf0ndXVXT76670FYw5qiHgA55CZn7A_elVg2ylgAEtdzK2I0gg0zSNxE009QaQtXyiZZlplyRQousJyjw13J3_lQ2uZsxmRxuEn1VWR1tY-xIxFLdxGz4NlCbBqruQIdqoSSWWXO6yGDkC60itQTACAiJ4j6cKHI98zxmVAxeR4QNn9x8WxUufeK7803uT61Lum-QimXTQtMqTB_FSdEObLJ6xX14Gzbsk66NhYgDDtnRdTAdFNKT87T4EiVXm_tEc0k7doZQy_1XY8vtWD8wEjjx0PqXVRb6TGeCfhri5SlxZTMtTDs&smid=url-share) > [@](#): > > The statute, known as Executive Law 63 (12), sounds more like an arcane ordinance than a powerful cudgel against corporate malfeasance. And yet, it provides the attorney general with an unusually broad legal arsenal to investigate businesses and people involved in “persistent fraud or illegality.” > … > The power, he said, stems largely from a relatively low bar to proving fraud. In these cases, the attorney general’s office does not have to show that defendants intended to defraud anyone or that their actions resulted in any financial loss. It can make a case based solely on significant misrepresentations or deceptive practices. > > The law also provides for defendants to disgorge their ill-gotten gains, giving the attorney general considerable leverage in potential settlement negotiations before a case goes to trial. The lawsuit against Mr. Trump seeks the $250 million that it contends he reaped through his deceptions, and asks a judge to essentially run him out of business in the state. > > And the statute affords the attorney general’s office — the only agency empowered to bring cases under the law — substantial authority to investigate companies before suing them. While plaintiffs in a typical civil dispute cannot collect documents or conduct interviews until after filing a lawsuit, “63 12” empowers the attorney general to issue subpoenas, conduct depositions and do other digging upfront, before deciding whether to sue. > … > “The conduct alleged in this case is tailor-made for the statute,” said Harlan Levy, who served as chief deputy attorney general from 2011 to 2015. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/624 "2023-10-06T02:17:51Z")
I keep hearing talk of taking Mara Lardo along with trump tower. I thought properties in Florida had special protection from seizures, that being why OJ moved there. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/625 "2023-10-06T02:20:35Z")
Personal pensions get special protection in Florida, I believe. Mar-a-Lago is owned by a corporation. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/626 "2023-10-06T13:20:30Z")
AIUI, nearly all of the Trumps’ residences are owned by their various companies. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/627 "2023-10-06T14:23:05Z")
Which is bog-standard procedure for the wealthy. Of course, trump being trump, it also provides a convenient way to steal extra money. But in and of itself, the fact companies (probably LLCs) own the residences is neutral, not damning. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/628 "2023-10-06T18:12:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But in and of itself, the fact companies (probably LLCs) own the residences is neutral, not damning. I think the point was that it might defeat the protections for personal residences that Florida has enacted. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/629 "2023-10-06T18:23:03Z")
Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. My understanding of the OJ case is that Florida has very strong protections for pensions, to make them near-impossible to garnishee. (Query: how does the age demo in Florida skew? 😉 ) But corporations aren’t people, they don’t have pensions. I’m not aware of any special protections for corporate property in Florida? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/630 "2023-10-06T19:00:10Z")
I don’t want to take this too far, but it doesn’t look _to me_ (IANAL) like Mar-A-Lago would be protected from forfeiture/seizure **[under FL law](https://www.gsblawfirm.com/florida-homestead-creditor-protection#)**: 1. > Homestead is defined as one’s principal place of residence up to one-half acre within a municipality and up to 160 contiguous acres outside a municipality [MAL is ~17-20 acres and apparently _in_ Palm Beach] 1. > homestead property must be owned only by “natural persons.” As such, properties titled in the name of limited liability companies, corporations, partnerships, irrevocable trusts and other entity forms will not qualify as homestead property. Courts, however, have ruled that property owned by living trusts can be homestead property as well as 99-year leasehold interests. The “natural persons” ownership requirement is often overlooked by individuals or out-of-state practitioners who are unfamiliar with Florida homestead protection laws and attempt to convey otherwise qualified homestead properties to asset protected entities used in other contexts [I’m going to guess that this one’s a wee bit iffy. I’ve been presuming he holds it in an LLC, but it could very well be a Trust for his family, kids, grandkids, or … an adult film actress] 1. > Additionally, adding a co-owner who does not permanently reside in the homestead property may jeopardize the homestead status. In this instance, a judgment creditor of such co-owner can reach the co-owner’s ownership share of the homestead and force its sale. [Permanent residency, too, is probably arguable, though I thought Trump had already violated his agreement with the City based on frequency and duration of stays, so … maybe … just maybe … it – de jure – _cannot be_ his primary residence (?)] ETA: Forbes has gone a bit farther with the issue: > **[Here Is Why Donald Trump Is Moving To Florida](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alangassman/2019/11/07/here-is-why-donald-trump-is-moving-to-florida/)** > > A great many people in the tax and estate-planning community are speculating as to why Donald Trump may be moving to Florida. ETA2: apparently, the actual wording can be found in this 1p PDF: > **[Article%20X%20\_%20Intestacy%20Statute.pdf](https://www.flta.org/Resources/Documents/Continuing%20Ed/Webinar%20Materials/Homestead%20III/Article%20X%20_%20Intestacy%20Statute.pdf)** > > 195.10 KB ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/631 "2023-10-06T19:15:55Z")
But there’s also the fact that it’s not just his personal residence. It’s a commercial operation, with paying members entitled to stay and use the facilities. That doesn’t sound like a homestead to me, but who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/632 "2023-10-06T19:35:51Z")
Legal Eagle just posted a video talking about the impact of the ruling against his businesses. It is described as the “Corporate Death Penalty”, and also as “bankruptcy but much worse”. And there are predictions that it’s just going to get worse for him. I think it’s worth a watch. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ilZt4lomngU/maxresdefault.jpg "Trump Gets the Corporate Death Penalty (And It's Getting Worse)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZt4lomngU) ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/633 "2023-10-06T20:46:17Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But there’s also the fact that it’s not just his personal residence. It’s a commercial operation, with paying members entitled to stay and use the facilities. That doesn’t sound like a homestead to me, but who knows? Trump is living there as an employee. That’s how he got around the rule that members can only live there up to 21 days per year, which is what his neighbors tried to argue in 2021. > [@](#): > > Palm Beach Town Manager Kirk Blouin told the _Daily News_ this week that council members had subsequent discussions with Randolph about Trump’s residence and “did not object” to the attorney’s determination that Trump is a Mar-a-Lago employee and legally entitled to live at the club. [Trump Can Legally Live At Mar-A-Lago, Palm Beach Says (forbes.com)](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/05/07/trump-can-legally-live-at-mar-a-lago-palm-beach-says/?sh=56e5540f6046) So it doesn’t sound like he is considered the homeowner even if he owns it. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/634 "2023-10-06T22:04:04Z")
They denied the request to halt the trial, but did grant a hold on the business suspension. On to trump cfo on the stand on Tuesday. > **[Trump denied halt to $250M civil fraud trial by appeals judge after Letitia...](https://nypost.com/2023/10/06/trumps-lawyers-ask-appeals-court-to-halt-current-250m-civil-fraud-trial/#)** > > The New York Attorney General’s Office had warned that the requested move would “sow chaos” if granted. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/635 "2023-10-06T22:09:37Z")
So, in a taped deposition shown today, Trump Organization CFO and accountant Allen Weisselberg testified that he wasn’t familiar with GAAP, an acronym for “generally accepted accounting principles” because he wasn’t a CPA (certified public accountant) and had never studied for the CPA exam. Donald Trump Jr. showed a higher level of knowledge about GAAP than the company’s chief accountant, admitting that he probably learned about them when he took Accounting 101 in business school. When asked what he remembered, he replied “that they’re generally accepted.” > **[Trump and family deny responsibility for fudging Trump Org numbers in...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-trial-ag-shows-previously-unseen-deposition-that-showed-family-deny-fraud-2023-10)** > > Donald Trump showed up in court for the first day of his $250 million civil fraud trial in New York, where he was confronted with video of his own deposition. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/636 "2023-10-06T22:15:34Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Allen Weisselberg testified that he wasn’t familiar with GAAP [![](https://media.tenor.co/images/edf7c0e47e1eb7a66c32685cc4062872/tenor.gif) ](https://media.tenor.co/images/edf7c0e47e1eb7a66c32685cc4062872/tenor.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/637 "2023-10-06T22:21:44Z")
GAAP between his ears. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/638 "2023-10-06T22:25:34Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Trump Organization CFO and accountant Allen Weisselberg testified that he wasn’t familiar with GAAP, an acronym for “generally accepted accounting principles”… 🤦🏽‍♀️ You really _can’t_ make this shit up. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/639 "2023-10-06T22:26:17Z")
“…only the best people. Top-of-the-line professionals…” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/640 "2023-10-06T22:27:12Z")
This is the first case to really bite hard, I think it’s inevitable that Trump continues to make thinly-veiled threats, possibly gets himself thrown in jail for it. I hope Engoron is well protected by a security detail. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/641 "2023-10-06T22:28:26Z")
In fairness, a CFO does not need to be a CPA. That’s why they have an accounting department. But not knowing anything about GAAP? That’s mind boggling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=33)