# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/762 "2023-10-21T00:22:35Z")
Courts: “You are free to exercise your right to remain silent.” Trump: “Take a look at me, do you think I exercise?!” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/763 "2023-10-21T01:04:53Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > I’m surprised that the lawyers have hair left to tear out. I’ve come to the assumption that Trump lawyers buy their Scotch by the case. Weekly. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/764 "2023-10-21T01:36:36Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > **Incompetence** : Trump was truly failed by his **[Elite Legal Strike Force Team](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/26/trump-lawyers-65-project-00108120l)**, in which case, Trump should rightfully and openly be _furious_ with them. His very liberty has been put in jeopardy. Having said that, “My staff post so many hateful things in so many places I can’t possibly keep track of them all!” is a terrible defence. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/765 "2023-10-21T16:13:55Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Three days of fundraising, max. Three days’ funding which isn’t going to other Republican candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/766 "2023-10-24T17:35:35Z")
[Michael Cohen’s testimony is going nicely today](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2023/oct/24/trumps-former-fixer-michael-cohen-to-testify-at-civil-trial-live): > [@](#): > > “I was tasked, by Mr Trump, to increase the total assets based upon a number that he arbitrary selected, and my responsibility, along with Allen Weisselberg predominately, was to reverse-engineer the various different asset classes, increase those assets, in order to achieve the number that Mr Trump had [requested],” Cohen said. > > When asked what number he came up with, Cohen said, “Whatever number Mr Trump told us to.” > > Cohen’s admission came as he was questioned about his familiarities with Trump’s statement of financial condition – which is key to this trial, as the ex-president is accused of fudging to get fraudulent benefits. > > “It was to be used eventually for purposes of demonstrating net worth for acquisitions for insurance purpose,” Cohen said. > > He explained that in relation to insurance, insurance brokers would come to Trump’s company and permitted to take notes – but they weren’t allowed to keep it. > > “The benefit was to show that the assets had extremely high values, with low liabilities in order to obtain better insurance premiums,” Cohen said. > > He made the admission when shown a copy of the statement of financial condition on the screen. So that happened. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/767 "2023-10-24T17:46:35Z")
> [@](#): > > He explained that in relation to insurance, insurance brokers would come to Trump’s company and permitted to take notes – but they weren’t allowed to keep it. The whole ‘not allowed to take/keep notes’ thing, you’d think, would have been a red flag to so many people over the years. OTOH, maybe it was. We’re only hearing from people that did work for him. Who knows, maybe for each person that did work for him there’s 10 that decided against it and walked away. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/768 "2023-10-25T18:48:44Z")
Judge Engoron has fined Trump a token $10,000 after he made an oblique insulting reference to Engoron’s clerk. Engoron made Trump take the stand, where he (Trump) claimed that he was really insulting Cohen rather than the Judge’s clerk. Seems the judge did not buy it. He’s certainly drawing a firm line in the sand; No playing childish games. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/769 "2023-10-25T18:51:00Z")
Cite: > **[Donald Trump fined $10K after taking witness stand in fraud trial as Cohen's...](https://abc7.com/donald-trump-fraud-trial-michael-cohen-new-york-city/13970000/)** > > A comment from Donald Trump outside court has led the judge in Trump's business fraud trial to weigh whether Trump violated a limited gag order. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/770 "2023-10-25T18:54:05Z")
Judge Engoron is doing it right, escalating sanctions gradually. The goal is to protect the case, the jury pool, witnesses, jurors, court staff, etc. with the least intrusive means possible – but up to and including jail. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/771 "2023-10-25T18:57:46Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > , jurors, I believe this is a Bench Trial, with no jury present. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/772 "2023-10-25T18:58:33Z")
You’re right in this case, but I was speaking more generally about how judges proceed in imposing gag orders and sanctions for same. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/773 "2023-10-25T19:00:37Z")
the civil hammer has fallen again! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/774 "2023-10-25T19:07:13Z")
I wonder what’s next; Bigger fine or a short stay in the crowbar hotel. I’d be happy even with 8 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/775 "2023-10-25T19:09:13Z")
Bigger fine. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/776 "2023-10-25T20:14:48Z")
basically, a fucking swear jar. Trump will happily drop 10k here and there to ‘speak his mind’. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/777 "2023-10-25T20:26:14Z")
I agree that it’s a token. I agree that it’s pocket change for Trump _right now_, and totally worth it in his fundraising efforts as it were. I suspect that it won’t be a mere doubling, nor end as just fines if the trend continues. If it were me, the next would be $50,0000. Then $250,000 with increasingly clear statements that repeatedly failing to follow the Judge’s instructions cannot be construed as anything but defiance of the court’s authority (rather than the judge’s authority) to ensure any citizen’s compliance with the law. And if he goes for 5+ (which is what I’ve laid out above) while claiming he was “innocent in intent” the whole time, I’d explicitly state that the next step is jail. But let’s be clear, Trump has written off this case, he’s playing for his crowds and the appeals. And making things steady but clearly spelled out is the best counter to said appeal. Sympathetic judge or not on appeal, constantly denying the court’s authority isn’t going to endear him to any one evaluating his efforts. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/778 "2023-10-25T20:31:46Z")
i must say after today’s slap down, the televised georgia trial should be quite something. after the slap down, the trump team lawyer once again tried to get the case dismissed. that did not go well either. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/779 "2023-10-25T23:27:22Z")
Note that it wasn’t just a fine; the judge required Trump to take the stand, questioned him about what he meant, and when told it was about Cohen, not the clerk, flat-out told Trump he didn’t believe him. That’s got to smart. ETA: Quote from DavidNRockies’ link: > Engoron said Trump’s claim was “not credible,” noting that he sat closer to the clerk than to Cohen. > > “The idea that the statement would refer to the witness,” Engoron said, “doesn’t make any sense to me.” ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/780 "2023-10-26T00:16:12Z")
I hope in this case the gag order eventually involves and actual, physical gag. Is that a possibility? Individual One may be into that kinda thing, but one can hope. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/781 "2023-10-26T01:06:53Z")
The judge also mentioned that trump calls cohen by name. A bit of the transcript was read on msnbc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=40)