# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/802 "2023-10-27T19:05:19Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I think that Ivanka will give reliable testimony I would expect she’ll plead the fifth, unless the criminal statute of limitations has run. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/803 "2023-10-27T19:24:27Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I would expect she’ll plead the fifth Hell, maybe they’re counting on it so that the judge draws an adverse inference against dad. Fine by me. Pleading the fifth is just throwing Donnie under the bus by a different mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/804 "2023-10-27T23:24:49Z")
Next week is a gangbuster week of witnesses. Don, Eric, and ivanka. Should be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/805 "2023-10-27T23:58:52Z")
If I were they I’d be taking the Fifth, all the time. At least, if I were a self aware Don / Eric - Invaka might be smart enough to not incriminate herself while testifying, or to end up in perjuring themselves. The two elder male spawn… not so much. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/806 "2023-10-28T01:44:40Z")
DJT: “Ivanka? Name sounds familiar but I’m not placing it.” ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/807 "2023-10-28T10:51:37Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Invaka As in invaking the Fifth Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/808 "2023-10-28T13:37:57Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > At least, if I were a self aware Don / Eric - Invaka might be smart enough to not incriminate herself while testifying, or to end up in perjuring themselves. Or, she might just say screw it, and go with the A Fish Called Wanda tactic. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/0jsuvkoXmwQ/maxresdefault.jpg "A Fish Called Wanda - Court Betrayal") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jsuvkoXmwQ) ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/809 "2023-10-28T17:14:38Z")
If only I had been smart enough to make that joke! Damn fumble fingers. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/810 "2023-10-28T19:52:49Z")
In my opinion, Ivanka is just as corrupt as the rest of the family, but she’s a little bit more aware of potential consequences. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/811 "2023-10-28T21:37:41Z")
> **[Trump calls fraud trial judge "grossly incompetent" in latest Truth Social...](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-calls-fraud-trial-judge-174320749.html)** > > Trump's rant against Judge Engoron comes a day after it was declared that his daughter Ivanka must testify > [@](#): > > Ignoring continued warnings from judges to mind his manners on social media, and to refrain from making targeted attacks — lest he be hit with more fines, or even jail time — Trump railed against Engoron in a message rattled off on Saturday morning, calling him “grossly incompetent” and “a partisan political hack who totally disregards the Court of Appeals decisions against him.” > > “The New York State legal system has broken down completely, and everybody who is watching this Witch Hunt so agrees,” the former president continues. “Hopefully, that will soon change. This CRAZED Judge ruled against me before the Trial even started, and said Mar-a-Lago is worth only $18,000,000. Other properties, likewise. This is a Biden Election Interference Scam! There were No Crimes & No Victims, and there is NO JURY ALLOWED. This Radical Trump Hater Must Be Taken Off This Case!” You mad, Bro? Cuz you _sound_ mad. Like Edgar Allan Poe wrote about – that kind of mad. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/812 "2023-10-28T21:47:30Z")
Remind me again why it’s not a jury trial? Oh yeah… it’s because Trump’s idiot lawyer _forgot to request one!_ ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/813 "2023-10-28T21:49:29Z")
I’m sorry, but you strayed from Fox, OANN, and Newsmax, and you _are_ disqualified. We have some lovely parting gifts for you backstage, though 😉 What better gift for a demagogue than people who struggle mightily every day to maintain the perfection of their information bubbles? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/814 "2023-10-28T23:24:22Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Remind me again why it’s not a jury trial? Oh yeah… it’s because Trump’s idiot lawyer _forgot to request one!_ That was the initial reports, but subsequent reports, including comments from the trial judge himself on the opening day of trial, indicate that a jury is not available under NY state law for this type of trial, where the plaintiff is not just seeking monetary redress, but orders under statutes, such as the cancellation of the certificates of the corporations that make up Trump Org. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/815 "2023-10-28T23:39:51Z")
I just scanned a number of articles on the lack of a jury trial in this case. To me, the answer isn’t black or white. I think Snopes treatment of the matter hits the high points. It seems like part of what the suit seeks is equitable relief – generally not associated with a jury trial – and part of what the trial seeks is money damages – where they may have been able to prevail on a Motion to have the case heard _by_ a jury (or which may have been declared to _also_ be equitable relief by a Judge). That’s my IANAL read on the issue, anyway: > **[Did Trump's Lawyers 'Forget To Check a Box' Requesting a Jury Trial?](https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/10/03/trumps-lawyers-forget-check-box/)** > > "That’s not how this works," Trump lawyer Alina Habba argued on Newsmax. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/816 "2023-10-28T23:58:52Z")
Yes, there seems to be room for argument. I was just responding to the suggestion that Trump’s counsel made a basic error, which some of the early commentary was saying. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/817 "2023-10-29T00:04:28Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Remind me again why it’s not a jury trial? Oh yeah… it’s because Trump’s idiot lawyer _forgot to request one!_ As the saying goes, never attribute to malice that which can adequately explained by stupidity. However, I do believe there should be a corollary along the lines, in any strategic situation, never attribute an apparent failure in your opponent to stupidity. As has been mentioned earlier (either this thread or some other one on a similar subject), Trump has probably already written off this trial. He is merely using it as a platform to demonstrate how the evil Dems will stop at nothing, not even denying his constitutional rights, to put him down. Such an abused individual. Sad. Jury trial or not, the outcome would be the same. But, by claiming he is being denied a trial by a jury of his peers, his claims will get repeated and his adherents will eat it up. So, what to do about it? There’s nothing that can be done. The likes of Fox, Onan, etc…, will only repeat, “NO JURY ALLOWED!” The implication that the two-tiered Biden Justice system will be reinforced with no facts reported. Most Trumpers will look no farther. If any legitimate news sources repeat his “Twuth” in order to illustrate how it is full of lies, only the repeat of the lies will be heard, not the refutations. His followers honestly believe that Trump is incapable of lying, so it must be the news sources that are lying. Make no mistake, the decision not to pursue a jury trial was a carefully made strategic one, not one made by stupid lawyers. Sure, he has enough stupid lawyers working for him to fill a bus, but those are not the only ones. The stupid ones are the ones he puts on TV. The expensive ones work behind the scenes. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/818 "2023-10-29T15:32:27Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > The stupid ones are the ones he puts on TV. The expensive ones work behind the scenes. Which raises the question of how a very stupid man is able to distinguish between the dumb lawyers and the smart ones. My guess is the smart ones give him backtalk, insist on their money upfront, and refuse to do things just because he wants them. The dummies jump when he says “Frog!” and can be bullshitted about their pay, and their duties. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/819 "2023-10-30T00:07:27Z")
That seems to go against the strategy of maximizing delay. A jury trial would go much slower. I think his lawyers are just less than competent. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/820 "2023-10-30T01:24:33Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > That seems to go against the strategy of maximizing delay. A jury trial would go much slower. I think his lawyers are just less than competent Well, if the delay goes past Nov 5, 2024, he can’t make any hay from a trial he has already decided he is going to lose. While it goes against maximizing delay, it is well in line with maximizing the results of the legal action. To me, it’s obvious the man is not a stupid fool. He acts to fool, but it’s just an act. This act benefits him with both his disciples and his detractors. His disciples admire his foolishness. They are very wary of anyone who appears to be smarter than they are, so they feel his act makes him more like they are. For his detractors, they don’t realize his idiocy is just an act. The courts, the media, even the public, are more willing to accept that he is an moron than he is an evil mastermind. That’s how he won in 2016 and, if not stopped, will win in 2024. You may think him an idiot, but he manages to out-negotiate most who confront him. He is dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/821 "2023-10-30T01:40:35Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > You may think him an idiot, but he manages to out-negotiate most who confront him. He is dangerous. He’s dangerous, because he manages to convince large numbers of people to follow him. But he’s never in his life managed to out-negotiate anyone. I mean, we’re talking about someone who can drive a casino to bankruptcy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=42)