# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1402 "2023-11-14T06:49:14Z")
Maybe Individual-ONE can get a mistrial declared on the basis of his lawyers being so utterly incompetent that they look less intelligent than even him? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1403 "2023-11-14T07:15:40Z")
I asked this earlier, and was informed that “ineffective assistance of counsel” is available only in criminal proceedings, whereas this is a civil action. So that’s off the table. Also, it should be noted that even in a criminal case, this argument can be raised only _after_ the conviction, as part of the appeal; it can’t be used to interrupt and short-circuit the proceeding prior to rendering of the verdict. In other words, even if this were a criminal trial, Trump would need to absorb the hit of being found guilty before he could try to argue this. So, yeah, Trump’s team definitely looks like a bunch of clowns, but there’s no obvious way for him to turn that to his advantage. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1404 "2023-11-14T11:45:03Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > If Trump wants to ask for a mistrial on the grounds that Judge Engoron is prejudiced because he’s a poopyhead that is friends with some Democrats…. This has to be Trump’s legal strategy for all his upcoming trials. For the average person, of course this is meaningless, but being a politician, is it possible this will get any traction? I mean, beyond the rubes. Can he cry “this isn’t faaair!” in the courtroom and make a difference? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1405 "2023-11-14T13:35:46Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > but being a politician, is it possible this will get any traction? I mean, beyond the rubes. Can he cry “this isn’t faaair!” in the courtroom and make a difference? He doesn’t care if it gets traction with the legal system. He only cares that it gets traction in the court of public opinion and further inflames the folks incensed at the Evil Gummint. Once he is dictator, all this pesky legal stuff simply disappears in a poof of smoke. Yes, even any state-level complaints. Once everything you do is illegal, there are no rules. N-O-N-E none. It’s all a matter of what your goons with guns can persuade other people without guns to do. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1406 "2023-11-14T15:01:15Z")
I take it the court proceedings yesterday were so insipid and irrelevant that no one has any pithy comments. I’m surprised Engoron allowed Jr. his stump for so long, but I admit it probably makes sense in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1407 "2023-11-14T15:03:09Z")
Yeah, that’s it. But I guess tha AG had enough. At some point she grabbed her coat and left. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1408 "2023-11-14T15:06:13Z")
**[The BBC’s summary:](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-67387237)** > [@](#): > > Donald Trump Jr appeared in New York court once again, this time to be questioned by the defence team. Here’s what happened: > > - Trump was relaxed and made multiple jokes. At one point Trump joked about a photo of his younger brother Eric, saying there’s “a lot of Photoshop” > > - The questioning focused on the Trump Organization’s portfolio of properties - the defence displayed a slideshow and questioned Don Jr on his recollection of each property > > - Trump claimed the organisation was run like a “mom and pop” business and says his father is a “genius” and an "artist with real estate” > > - Trump suggested Mar-a-Lago is “one of the few sort of American castles" and added that “you couldn’t build [its] atrium for $18m today” > > - Cross examination was swift, with the state’s legal team challenging Trump on the success of various businesses he had praised during his testimony In a less circumspect vein: > [@](#): > > **Judge calls property evidence a ‘stupid document’** > > Earlier, before going on break, defence lawyers presented a history of the Trump Organization, as told through a slideshow of photos of the company’s properties. > > [This court sketch](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2023/11/13/b1af4a38-7d35-4a9f-85df-c16e90f3b700.jpg) shows Don Jr near a screen image of the Trump golf course outside of Doral, Florida. The defence team wanted this to be admitted as a piece of evidence. > > The judge, however, did not seem impressed and called what looked like a property brochure a “stupid document". > > However, the court eventually agreed to admitting it into evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1409 "2023-11-14T15:30:07Z")
“Trump suggested Mar-a-Lago is “one of the few sort of American castles” and added that “you couldn’t build [its] atrium for $18m today”" ISTM, something like that would be so easily proven wrong, it’s a waste of time to even say it. How difficult would it be for the prosecution to hire an architect to work out a rough cost to do that job. And, pulling up a picture, I’m pretty sure that’s not $18m worth of wood and glass. [![](https://cdn.wedding-spot.com/images/venues/283/Trump%20National%20Golf%20Club%20Wedding%20Briarcliff%20Manor%20NY%201.jpg) ](https://cdn.wedding-spot.com/images/venues/283/Trump%20National%20Golf%20Club%20Wedding%20Briarcliff%20Manor%20NY%201.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1410 "2023-11-14T15:45:14Z")
From the quote in @Gyrate’s post: > - Trump claimed the organisation was run like a “mom and pop” business and says his father is a “genius” and an " **artist** with real estate” I think he left out the word “con”. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1411 "2023-11-14T15:48:43Z")
I’m surprised that hasn’t blown down. I will admit building that today to Miami/Dade wind standards would be an engineering challenge, but I bet I could still build that for $3-400/foot. Structurally challenging, but the finishes are low-rent. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1412 "2023-11-14T15:52:26Z")
Too bad Mom got popped. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1413 "2023-11-14T15:57:33Z")
But I think the real issue isn’t the value of the buildings that are Mar-A-Lago. It’s that, IIRC, in an effort to avoid taxes, Trump agreed to stringent restrictions regarding how the property could be used - which accounts for the low tax valuation. But when he valued the property in his financials, he ignored those restrictions and the resulting devaluation. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1414 "2023-11-14T16:13:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Trump suggested Mar-a-Lago is “one of the few sort of American castles" and added that “you couldn’t build [its] atrium for $18m today” Well, maybe Trump could. Hire a contractor, accept his bid of 18 million, and pay a total of 1 million in legal fees and the contractor’s bill. Or even less than 1 million, maybe a lot less. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1415 "2023-11-14T17:42:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > - Trump suggested Mar-a-Lago is “one of the few sort of American castles" and added that “you couldn’t build [its] atrium for $18m today” _He_ couldn’t, because of his reputation of stiffing people who do stuff for him. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1416 "2023-11-14T18:09:38Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > and the contractor’s bill you seem to be unfamiliar with Individual-ONE ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1417 "2023-11-14T18:14:31Z")
No, paying less than one million on an 18 million dollar bill seems about right for Individual One. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1418 "2023-11-14T19:24:22Z")
The Master of Subtlety puts a Mob Hit LiteTM out on Letitia James and Judge Engoron. Stochastic terrorism, anyone? > **["This is an actual incitement": Legal experts alarmed after Trump pushes...](https://news.yahoo.com/actual-incitement-legal-experts-alarmed-174314050.html)** > > Trump shared a post on Truth Social calling for "citizen's arrest" of NY AG Letitia James, Judge Arthur Engoron. > [@](#): > > Former President Donald Trump on Tuesday reposted a Truth Social post calling for a “citizen’s arrest” of New York Attorney General Letitia James and Judge Arthur Engoron, who is overseeing his fraud trial. Trump shared a post by a user describing his “fantasy”: “I WOULD LIKE TO SEE LITITIA JAMES AND JUDGE ENGORON PLACED UNDER CITIZENS ARREST FOR BLATANT ELECTION INTERFERENCE AND HARASSMENT.” > > Legal experts expressed alarm over the post. “Sometimes he says incendiary things that his followers act on, as in ‘will be wild.’ This is an actual incitement to break the law and it greatly endangers the judge and AG,” tweeted former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. George Washington University Law Prof. Jonathan Turley, who frequently defends Trump in the media, also warned: “Just in case anyone is taking such a statement as more than a fantasy, there is no basis for a citizen’s arrest and such an effort to physically hold either the judge or the attorney general would most certainly constitute a criminal act.” NB: Jonathan Turley has really gone over to the RW dark side, so _him_ cautioning against acting on this is saying something. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1419 "2023-11-14T19:33:21Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Stochastic terrorism, anyone? Is it even stochastic when it’s this literal? This is a pretty straightforward call to kidnap two government officials. ETA: I just looked it up, and it’s prefaced with “MY FANTASY” and then some emojis, so all in good fun, judge! Just joshing around! ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1420 "2023-11-14T19:45:33Z")
So does this mean it’s time to widen the gag order? Take away his access to social media? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2023, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1421 "2023-11-14T19:51:01Z")
I predict Engoron will extend the order to James but will leave himself as an allowable target, continuing out of the “not giving team Trump so much as a fingerhold for an appeal” playbook. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=70) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=72)