# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 76
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1502 "2023-11-16T02:38:01Z")
It would be funny if one of these judges gets to point out to him that he’s now spent more on legal fees than even what he claims to be worth. ETA, $37,000,000 at least? > **[Lawyers, Trump and money: Ex-president spends millions in donor cash on...](https://apnews.com/article/trump-lawyers-millions-payments-2024-campaign-2e06de2a8a90b3752e7758dfea56a509)** > > Trump’s Save America political action committee has paid nearly $37 million to more than 60 law firms and individual attorneys since January 2022, records show. > Trump’s Save America political action committee has paid nearly $37 million to more than 60 law firms and individual attorneys since January 2022, Federal Election Commission records show. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1503 "2023-11-16T02:46:31Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > To think Trump is paying for Mr. Flemmons’ testimony!) Yeah, trump style “payment”. Get the bill, dispute the bill, refuse payment, make threats, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1504 "2023-11-16T17:31:01Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I recall one very memorable civil trial where settlement discussions instigated by the defense occurred throughout the time the jury was deliberating. The offer racheted up by about a million dollars for each day of deliberation. The plaintiff’s lawyer gritted his teeth and each day turned down the ever-increasing offer. “We’ll wait for the jury’s verdict,” he said. The one jury trial I was on we were deliberating and just about to finish our final tally and return a verdict when somebody (bailiff I guess?) came in and told us we could go home because a settlement had been reached. I always wondered which side it was that blinked, and if they ever knew just how close they had come to having to face the jury verdict. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1505 "2023-11-16T20:29:43Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I always wondered which side it was that blinked, and if they ever knew just how close they had come to having to face the jury verdict. That must have been so frustrating for you jurors. I mean, I understand why judges take those settlement agreements even so deep into the case (it should be noted that not all judges do), but it can still be really exasperating for the jury who, in good faith, gave of their time and energy to dispose of the case. Depending on the terms of the settlement, it may be possible for you to discover the outcome. Next time you find yourself near the Clerk’s Office, stop by and ask to see the case file. They are a matter of public record. There will be a final judgment filed and signed by the parties and the judge. Unless the settlement was made confidential by agreement of the parties, you should be able to read it. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1506 "2023-11-16T20:51:28Z")
ny appeals court judge has lifted the gag order in trump civil fraud case. per msnbc. on, off, on, off. uff da. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1507 "2023-11-16T21:00:29Z")
Where’s @Aspenglow? Did the gag order seem like overreach when you learned of it? This ruling surprised me… ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1508 "2023-11-16T21:02:48Z")
> **[New York judge lifts gag order that barred Donald Trump from maligning court...](https://news.yahoo.com/york-judge-lifts-gag-order-201442586.html)** > > A gag order that barred Donald Trump from commenting about court personnel in his New York civil fraud trial after he maligned a key staffer was paused Thursday by an appellate judge who raised concerns that it violated the former president’s free... According to the appeals court judge that gag order was impinging on trump’s free speech rights. So, so ridiculous. It was the narrowest, most targeted gag order I’ve ever seen. Just don’t talk crap about the court staff. Say anything else you want. Call the prosecutor a deranged racist. Call the judge a biased Marxist. Call the witnesses lying liars who lie. Just shut up about the staff who just work here. But no, that’s just a bit too much silencing, i guess. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1509 "2023-11-16T21:07:42Z")
In my non-lawyer opinion, it’s not surprising. Disheartening, but not surprising. This is part of following legal precedent. Since the precedent is to leave the status quo in place pending a ruling, and since we are in uncharted territory with the issues before the appeals court, they are simply restoring the situation to the status quo: That is, in the absence of a full hearing, it is presumed such an order may not be lawful because it may impede Trump’s right to free speech. They’re erring on the side of less intervention and not more. It will prevent an issue on appeal later on. I have no doubt the AG will prevail after the hearing, and the hearing is scheduled quite soon, isn’t it? November 20th? I know Trump’s team must file responsive papers by tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1510 "2023-11-16T21:14:14Z")
Notice we really haven’t seen Trump engaging in any social media postings like: _“I had a dream that some people went to town on the Judge’s clerk in a dark alley with axe handles. I certainly wouldn’t want that to happen, but that’s the dream I had last night.”_ since the appeal got filed. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1511 "2023-11-16T21:25:44Z")
He has the next 3 days to fully abuse this reprieve. When he does, he will only add to the strength of the AG’s case for the gag order. It will be restored – and possibly expanded – on Monday, I think. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1512 "2023-11-16T21:25:55Z")
there should be a decision on the order on nov. 27th. someone has 11 days to rant and rage. i thought the hearing or briefs were on the 20th… is the decision that day as well? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1513 "2023-11-16T21:26:23Z")
I stand corrected. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1514 "2023-11-16T21:27:16Z")
Which is why I think he’s been relatively muted. I know, it’s hard to credit that he would actually heed anything his attorneys advised him not to do. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1515 "2023-11-16T21:30:51Z")
It is. And I’ll just say it’s early in the eleven-day period. Trump is not a man known for his steely, resolute self-discipline. * * * @rocking_chair, if you’ve heard something that indicates a ruling will issue on November 27th, I’ll assume you got that information from somewhere reliable. A ruling could be issued from the bench on the 20th with a written order to follow, but you’re probably right – they’ll just issue a written ruling by the 27th. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1516 "2023-11-16T21:31:21Z")
If Trump gets someone hurt or worse, everyone who allowed it can find the nearest mirror and have a proud look. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1517 "2023-11-16T21:32:05Z")
Because introspection is famously their home run swing?? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1518 "2023-11-16T21:33:25Z")
I don’t know how introspective the appellate judge is. Presumably, I guess you could be right: not much. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1519 "2023-11-16T21:37:08Z")
i was listening to andrew weissmann and typing. i do trust the man. off to poke on line. found this: Friedman’s terse ruling ordered James and Judge Arthur Engoron, who imposed the gag orders, to submit opposing briefs by Wednesday at noon. Trump’s lawyers must reply by the following Monday. and this from abc news: New York Attorney General Letitia James and representatives for Judge Arthur Engoron have until Wednesday to file a response to the appellate judge’s stay of the [limited gag order](https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/trump-fraud-trial/judge-admonishes-trump-after-he-posts-about-clerk-103697922?id=103642561) imposed last month on Donald Trump by Engoron, according to the appellate judge’s order. Trump’s reply is then due on Nov. 27 before the appellate court decides whether to fully lift the gag order. The civil fraud trial is expected to wrap up in mid-December. Engoron’s “gag orders entered during the non-jury trial in the underlying proceeding are unconstitutional, and sanctions imposed there under are in violation of the Judiciary Law and Rules of this court,” Trump’s attorneys said in arguing for the order to be lifted. Oral arguments about the gag order were presented at a separate courthouse from the courtroom where Trump’s civil trial is taking place. Engoron, who is hearing testimony from an expert witness, has not commented on the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1520 "2023-11-16T22:01:10Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > If Trump gets someone hurt or worse, everyone who allowed it can find the nearest mirror and have a proud look. You know, it’s real easy to sit in the peanut gallery and lob spitballs at those who are tasked with protecting our rights in this country against a previously unencountered malignant fuck who is willing to push every boundary from a position no one in our country’s history has ever held before: A former president with immense reach who is again running for office while simultaneously being prosecuted in various venues for crimes and civil violations. You may hate the sausage-making of justice in this country, and I get that. There are often difficult decisions that must be made – few more horrible than this one. Sometimes to protect our rights, things that seem completely bonkers must be done. Still, do you seriously believe it has escaped the notice of a very seasoned New York appellate court judge the practical effect of his lifting the gag order? That lives will be endangered? Nevertheless, consider that since the order was so narrow, pertaining solely to Judge Engoron’s court staff, how many people are really additionally endangered by its lifting? And I say this as former court staff. More security for those people for awhile. It sucks, but according to Judge Engoron’s gag order, everyone in the world was already a target except for his court staff. The issue the appellate judge is weighing in the lifting of the gag order is against protecting rights of free speech – _for all of us_, not just Trump. Judge Friedman has been on the bench since 1999. He’s a Democrat. He is very mindful of setting a bad precedent that will be relied on by future judges. Including Trump judges. Maybe instead of demonstrating such contempt for the judicial folks who are trying to get it right for all New York citizens, consider venting your spleen against those who abuse our legal system in ways previously unimagined. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1521 "2023-11-16T22:10:09Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Thanks for that. > > And – as you’ve been _exceedingly_ selfless in taking the occasional One for the Team – I’d be grateful if you were willing to simply characterize it as worth reading (even if only for the LOLs or a total waste of time and utterly predictable. > > You have the thanks of (a venerable subset of) a grateful nation. I guess it’s worth skimming, but it appears to be mostly bullshit. It’s most Team Trump talking shit about his law clerk. The biggest point they are making is that it is against ethics rules for court staff to make political contributions in excess of $500 a year, and it is true that Greenfield did. But what the ruling failed to mention is that there is an exception for court staff that are running for office. Greenfield was running for a civil court judgeship. Those candidates are allowed to purchase tickets to fundraising events. Candidates are expected to attend such events and it could be problematic if they dint buy their own tickets. Right-wing media is doing a bang up job of promoting the misleading narrative, and the “liberal media” is doing a horrible job of debunking it, but I did find this. > **[Trump's Lawyers Want a Mistrial in His NY Civil Fraud Case](https://time.com/6335750/trump-lawyers-want-mistrial-ny-civil-fraud-case/)** > > His attorneys claim the judge is biased. The rest of it’s total bullshit, she’s “co-judging” because she uses “we” when talking about the judge’s office work on the case, she’s making faces, Engoron consults with her too much, she’s a Democrat, she knows a bunch of Democrats, she talks to Democrats, she even ran for office as a Democrat and did I mention that she’s a Democrat? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=75) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=77)