# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 82
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1622 "2023-11-30T17:15:49Z")
It’s a tactic he’s used before - attack the judge and then claim the judge is biased against him because of it. IIRC he tried that in the Trump University fraud case. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1623 "2023-11-30T17:32:51Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Anyone think the appeals court will buy “The judge must have been biased!!! Look how much shit I said to piss him off!” It won’t work. It probably would never even be part of the appellate argument. The appellate courts look at the _rulings_ the trial judge made, not allegations of “bias.” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1624 "2023-11-30T17:38:07Z")
Since the stay was reversed - is the gag order retro-active? Can Trump be fined/etc for his actions awaiting the apeal? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1625 "2023-11-30T17:48:01Z")
The short answer is no. The gag order was not in effect and cannot be made retroactive. If that were the case it would easily be appealed by Trumps team. Just watch how Trump changes his tactics now that the order is back on, how will he attempt to piss off the judge this time around? Attack his dog perhaps? His deceased relatives? ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1626 "2023-11-30T18:20:13Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Apparently he was attacking Engoron’s wife this morning. Apparently Trump was saying that Engoron’s wife was posting Anti-Trump messages and her biased takes on the trial on X. Problem is, she doesn’t have an X account, so … ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1627 "2023-11-30T18:36:32Z")
> [@Daithi\_Lacha](#): > > Problem is, she doesn’t have an X account, so … How is that a problem? Trump’s lies are just for his angry MAGA mob, and they don’t care for the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1628 "2023-11-30T19:40:24Z")
You’re absolutely right, of course. “Problem is” should be changed to “Wondrous Truth as revealed by the shining manifestation that is the Godhead Incarnate, Glorious Leader.” We’ll fix it in post. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1629 "2023-11-30T20:44:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Technically the previous breaches were enforced. It’s just that the penalties were not particularly onerous. WRT those violations and their penalties, were they held in abeyance while the appeal was being considered, and if so, are they reinstated? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1630 "2023-11-30T20:52:11Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > doubt the _entire_ 40% are outright fascist; I’m sure that a good number are just inexcusably ignorant and would be horrified by the prospect of what Trump is going to do if they cared enough to even consider a vote for a Democrat. Die haben Es nicht gewusst? A crap argument to make for yourself, kinda weird to make it for someone else. Ignorance of the law, of history is not a fucking excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1631 "2023-11-30T21:06:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > IIRC he tried that in the Trump University fraud case. IIRC he lost that case. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1632 "2023-11-30T21:08:42Z")
This is the most disgusting part of that article: > Trump’s lead attorney Christopher Kise [said]: “It’s a tragic day for the rule of law.” > > “In a country where the First Amendment is sacrosanct, President Trump may not even comment on why he thinks he cannot get a fair trial,” Kise added in a subsequent statement to the press. “Hard to imagine a more unfair process and hard to believe this is happening in America.” How dare they stop us from insulting, threatening, and inciting our followers to commit violence against an innocent member of the judge’s staff?!? > …a court security officer warned in a sworn statement that the clerk received “[hundreds](https://themessenger.com/politics/trump-attacks-engoron-clerk-credible-threats)” of threatening and harassing messages, which spike every time the former president attacks her. Did this poor woman have any hint before the trial started of the shit that would be dumped on her? I hope she’s getting adequate security and other forms of support. And of course, the main reason they’re doing all this is _[pour encourager les autres](https://wordhistories.net/2016/10/22/pour-encourager-les-autres/)._ Trump and his lawyers and supporters are monsters. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1633 "2023-11-30T21:41:21Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > This is the most disgusting part of that article: > > > Trump’s lead attorney Christopher Kise [said]: “It’s a tragic day for the rule of law.” > > > > “In a country where the First Amendment is sacrosanct, President Trump may not even comment on why he thinks he cannot get a fair trial,” Kise added in a subsequent statement to the press. “Hard to imagine a more unfair process and hard to believe this is happening in America.” What infuriates me, is that we’re all 100% positive that if their interpretation was allowed, that _somehow_ other persons, perhaps liberal, were to make threats, incitements and requests for himself, Trump, or conservative members of the SCOTUS to millions of people that their defense of the sacrosanct First Amendment would be non-existent. The barefaced cheek of the hypocrisy has me a-grindin’ my teeth every time I see this bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1634 "2023-11-30T21:50:40Z")
I posted this one elsewhere: I wonder what would happen if Trump’s Secret Service Protection Detail very publicly announced that they were going to take the month of December off. Maybe go fishing. Maybe clean out the garage. Maybe just spend some well-deserved time with their families. I wonder how Trump and his family would feel – hated, reviled, a pox upon our country, a menace to the Rule of Law – if the people he counts on to keep him alive … just … didn’t. That’s probably how Judge Engoron and Principal Law Clerk, Allison Greenfield feel every single day right now. And … why? Because a recidivist criminal and malignant narcissist will not stop breaking the law and will not ever take responsibility for HIS OWN actions. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1635 "2023-11-30T22:36:53Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > And … why? Because a recidivist criminal and malignant narcissist will not stop breaking the law and will not ever take responsibility for HIS OWN actions. The other sad part of the equation here is that so many are willing, no, _happy_ to carry water for this excrescence. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1636 "2023-11-30T22:44:19Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > > [@commasense](#): > > > > This is the most disgusting part of that article: > > > > > Trump’s lead attorney Christopher Kise [said]: “It’s a tragic day for the rule of law.” > > > > > > “In a country where the First Amendment is sacrosanct, President Trump may not even comment on why he thinks he cannot get a fair trial,” Kise added in a subsequent statement to the press. “Hard to imagine a more unfair process and hard to believe this is happening in America.” > > What infuriates me, is […] What infuriates me is people who don’t know what the expression “rule of law” means. It means the law applies to everyone. It applies to me; it applies to you; it applies to the police and it applies to the President. Exactly what Trump’s side denies. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1637 "2023-11-30T23:46:31Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > What infuriates me is people who don’t know what the expression “rule of law” means. They know exactly what it means, just like they know exactly how the first amendment works. They also know that their base doesn’t know these things and certainly won’t ‘do their own research’ so to speak. I mean, all you have to do is google ‘first amendment’ and you can plainly see that it starts with “Congress shall make no law…”. Next time someone complains about a first amendment violation because their facebook post was removed, ask them what law congress made or what the government did that resulted in that removal. It won’t end well. If someone says it’s a 1a violation for a facebook post to be removed or fact checked and I pull out my copy of the constitution and show the first amendment to they guy with “WE THE PEOPLE” tattooed across his bicep, who is he going to believe? The constitution that he can see with his own eyes or Trump, that told him not to believe what he can see with his own eyes? But tell me again how the dems are the sheep? There’s also the whole ‘you have freedom of speech, not freedom from repercussions of that speech’ thing (as well as some actual limitations on free speech), which, and I’m not being snarky or sarcastic, is a bit nuanced for a lot of people to grasp ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1638 "2023-11-30T23:55:58Z")
I wonder how Mr. Kise would feel if somebody were to go on social media and start making insinuations that he should suffer violence? And suppose a result he started receiving a deluge of threats? I’m guessing his support for such speech might diminish. I suspect suddenly it would be not so great to threaten lawyers, judges and clerks for doing their job. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1639 "2023-12-01T00:29:27Z")
Wasn’t Kise supposed to have some shred of…something? Guess it was just nothing after all - he just managed to luck out securing that 3 mil. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1640 "2023-12-01T00:31:53Z")
I’m starting to wonder if the (only?) monkey who got paid is being required to dance even harder than the other monkeys. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1641 "2023-12-01T00:33:14Z")
He didn’t say anything in front of the judge; just standard public pleading from the front steps. Odious? Yes. Probably cost DJT another $1million for that outburst. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=81) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=83)