# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1662 "2023-12-12T14:48:46Z")
Especially when he doesn’t say “Trump steaks are the best” but instead says “I have heard from many people that Trump steaks are the best, many people are saying this.” ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1663 "2023-12-12T15:05:01Z")
The oath I administer admonishes to “tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, under penalty of perjury.” Always crack me up when testimony is well under way, and in one response the witness says, “To tell the truth…” I generally succeed in not commenting! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1664 "2023-12-12T15:12:36Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Especially when he doesn’t say “Trump steaks are the best” but instead says “I have heard from many people that Trump steaks are the best, many people are saying this.” But the latter is actually more provable as a lie. “Trump steaks are the best” is an opinion, based on personal taste, which really can’t be impugned by evidence. But in theory, “People are saying” can be demonstrated as true or false. If we can show beyond a reasonable doubt that no one has ever said that too him, it’s shown as a lie. “Beyond a reasonable doubt” might be _difficult_ to prove, but it is in principle provable. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1665 "2023-12-12T16:10:18Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > My gut says they are, but then I also wonder why no one’s gone after him for those types of things, based on my assumption that he’s likely perjured himself in that way at some point or another. There’s also the fact that there are many, many lies told under oath, where the prosecutor knows they are lies and often proves they are in the course of the trial, but are never prosecuted. There’s only so much court time in the world and they can’t prosecute every bit of perjury. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1666 "2023-12-12T16:15:58Z")
If Trump testified, he’d be open to cross-examination. And I think even Trump’s tiny lizard brain would tell him that would be a Very Bad Thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1667 "2023-12-12T16:41:26Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There’s also the fact that there are many, many lies told under oath, where the prosecutor knows they are lies and often proves they are in the course of the trial, but are never prosecuted. There’s only so much court time in the world and they can’t prosecute every bit of perjury. Well, sure, any time there’s a criminal trial and the defendant says “I didn’t do it!”, and the jury finds that they did do it, that’s technically perjury. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1668 "2023-12-12T20:01:11Z")
Just putting this out there, I’ve used this cite on this board before because it’s a good one. [https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/perjury.html](https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/perjury.html) > Perjury is rarely charged, and it is difficult for prosecutors to prove. The threat of perjury charges is often a tool lawyers use to ensure that witnesses provide candid testimony to the court. It’s more often used as a tool to try to obtain a truthful testimony than something that’s actually prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1669 "2023-12-12T21:31:18Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > “Beyond a reasonable doubt” might be _difficult_ to prove, but it is in principle provable. But that is not the standard in a civil case. It is **preponderance of the evidence** ” – meaning that it is more likely than not . ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1670 "2023-12-13T04:11:10Z")
And precisely why DJT, The Trump Crime Family and the Trump Org are so clearly fucked in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1671 "2023-12-13T18:39:22Z")
The trial phase (well, the calling of witnesses to give testimony phase) of this case is officially over: > ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1672 "2023-12-13T21:08:42Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The trial phase (well, the calling of witnesses to give testimony phase) of this case is officially over: With Trump’s perfect testimony and expert witness, WHO FOUND NO ERRORS IN CALCULATIONS, I’m sure it will be business a usually for President Trump in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1673 "2023-12-14T16:08:20Z")
BREAKING: > ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1674 "2023-12-14T16:18:21Z")
No surprise there. Good to read nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1675 "2023-12-14T16:18:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1735330226576527842?t=q97w-sNTu8CaiwXWdpkCjw&s=19](https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1735330226576527842?t=q97w-sNTu8CaiwXWdpkCjw&s=19) > Trump last month appealed, arguing the orders violated his constitutional right to free speech. > > On Thursday, the mid-level state appeals court, known as the Appellate Division, said the gag order did not have a major impact. > > “Here, the gravity of potential harm is small, given that the Gag Order is narrow, limited to prohibiting solely statements regarding the court’s staff,” the order read. The judge crafted the gag order intelligently it would seem. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1676 "2023-12-14T16:32:42Z")
The core reasoning is sound. Your First Amendment right to speech doesn’t permit you to slander and verbally interfere with the administration of justice any more than your Second Amendment right to bear arms allows you to intimidate the members of the court at gunpoint. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1677 "2023-12-19T02:09:51Z")
Aw, poor Trump, that Judge Engoron is so doggone mean to him! [# Judge slams Trump’s experts and rejects motion to throw out New York civil fraud case](https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/18/politics/engoron-trump-denial/index.html) > The New York trial judge overseeing Donald Trump’s civil fraud trial wrote a [scathing denial](https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=QbK_PLUS_LJnXDL9v6FtzC9ofmw==) of the former president’s latest attempt to toss the state attorney general’s case against him — potentially a preview of a tough outcome for Trump as the trial process winds down. > > Judge Arthur Engoron slammed Trump’s accounting experts and rejected key points of the defense in an order Monday denying a motion for a directed verdict filed by Trump’s attorneys after trial testimony ended last week. > > It would be a “glaring flaw” to assume testimony from Trump accounting experts Eli Bartov and Jason Flemmons are true and accurate, the judge wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1678 "2023-12-19T02:39:43Z")
Thanks for that, @EddyTeddyFreddy . The CNN item is an interesting read. I particularly liked this part about one of Trump’s expert witnesses: > [@](#): > > “Bartov is a tenured professor, but all that his testimony proves is that for a million or so dollars, some experts will say whatever you want them to say,” Engoron wrote. “By doggedly attempting to justify every misstatement, Professor Bartov lost all credibility.” Ouch! That’s gotta hurt. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1679 "2023-12-19T16:08:15Z")
Ahhh…that explains this Trumper Truth Tantrum. > [@](#): > > Remember, the corrupt and radical Judge Engoron is a political hack who wouldn’t give us a Jury, wouldn’t let this “case” go to the Commercial Division, where it belongs (would have been TERMINATED), incredibly ignored the Appellate Court decision that struck down almost 90% of this fake lawsuit based on Statute of Limitations, etc., and, Illegally and Unconstitutionally Gagged me and my lawyers, in a brazen and blatant attempt to prevent us from bringing vital information to the Public and the Courts. The Racist Attorney General, and the Runaway Judge, are causing grave damage to our Justice System, to New York State, and to the United States of America! They attempted to use a disgusting and unfair Statute, which has never been used for this purpose before. I am not allowed a Jury, and they have, essentially, taken away my Rights. It is a Rigged Court in a Rigged New York State System, with Fraud committed by the A.G. and Judge in purposefully undervaluing my Assets, such as Mar-a-Lago, for $18 Million Dollars, when it is worth from 50 to 100 times that amount. This was knowingly and illegally done to make me look as bad as possible for purposes of ELECTION INTERFERENCE. Hopefully there is a Court somewhere in the Land that can stop this rogue, out-of-control Judge, and corrupt, and thoroughly biased Attorney General, from getting away with this egregious act. The Banks were paid in full, loved and respected the relationship, and stated loudly, under oath, and for all to hear, that they were extremely happy with Donald J. Trump! This was news that Judge Engoron was not happy with, our highly respected Expert Witness was mocked and excoriated by Engoron for telling the Truth, the Courthouse was in disbelief. The Expert said that my Financial Statements were the best he had ever seen, and on top of it all, they had a 100% Disclaimer / Non Reliance Clause on Page One, stating that any reader or user of this information should not rely on it, but rather do their own analysis, study, and due diligence. The Statements showed great liquidity, Hundreds of Millions of Dollars in Cash, and some of the best Assets anywhere in the World. I didn’t even include, perhaps, my most valuable Asset—THE TRUMP BRAND. It was determined in Court that because of this great liquidity, a Bank Loan was not even necessary. The Bank wanted to make the Deal more than I did, and they were thrilled with the end result—PROFITS AND SUCCESS! There were no Victims, other than me, in having to deal with a totally corrupt Prosecutor and Judge. He refused to give me a Jury and UNCONSTITUTIONALLY GAGGED ME about very important information. The New York State Attorney General, who has total control of the Judge, used this case to run for Governor, and failed. She should be disbarred for what she has done, as Murder and Violent Crime hit All Time Highs. Any Business that moves to New York is CRAZY! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1680 "2023-12-19T16:10:53Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Any Business that moves to New York is CRAZY! He should be happy that it is very likely the Trump Organization will soon no longer be doing business in New York, then. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1681 "2023-12-19T16:12:10Z")
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