# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1742 "2024-01-10T20:15:42Z")
That email chain was something. The judge’s accommodation is dependent only upon Trump following the same rules that apply to _anyone_ permitted to make a closing argument. That an attorney, a member of the bar, an officer of the court, describes this as “very unfair” ought to lead to sanctions. I don’t know if that’s usual. Let’s say public noogies at a minimum. Seriously, though, @Aspenglow, would it be a breach of decorum for a judge to smack down the sender of such an email? Some form of court-proper wording to the effect of, “You have got to be @#&$ing kidding me. Did you get your law degree from PEP boys? If you ever again call one of my rulings unfair based on…nothing…I will [insert appropriate sanction] for wasting the court’s time.” These guys are infuriating, the balls on them… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1743 "2024-01-10T20:17:38Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > These guys are infuriating This is surely the deliberate intent. Kise is not, by all accounts, an idiot. It’s interesting to see such a cynical ploy first hand. Unfortunately for him I suspect that Engoron is not an idiot either. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1744 "2024-01-10T20:18:55Z")
You’re right. Good thing he’s the judge and not me. I’d probably give them what they’re looking for, and then regret it. ETA: Yes, I just indirectly admitted to being an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1745 "2024-01-10T20:27:33Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > That an attorney, a member of the bar, an officer of the court, describes this as “very unfair” ought to lead to sanctions. I swear, every time I see Trump or anyone in his camp use the word “unfair,” all I can think of is a toddler who doesn’t like what he’s been told but has no ability to offer a coherent counter-argument. The entire GOP is basically an overgrown kindergarten class. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1746 "2024-01-10T20:38:19Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Here is the email chain. It has to be read from the last page to the first to go in proper sequential order. From that e-mail chain: > Your and your client’s rejection of the reasonable, normal limits I am imposing on any argument by Mr. Trump, which are the same limits that the law imposes on any person making a closing argument, completely justifies the need to impose them. 🤣 🤣 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1747 "2024-01-10T20:40:17Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Seriously, though, @Aspenglow, would it be a breach of decorum for a judge to smack down the sender of such an email? I haven’t read the email chain (will do so when I have time), and the exchange of emails between a judge and a litigant’s attorney is surprising to me as it could be construed as ex parte communication. Or more likely, Letitia James’s team is also included in the communications. In my day, there were strict rules for how pleadings had to be prepared and submitted, and those rules were enforceable. If a formal pleading did not adhere to the rules for formatting, they would be rejected by the Clerk’s Office, not even shown to the judge. But formatting rules for emails? Sounds like there aren’t any. I think @Riemann has it right: Kise is just employing yet another tactic to demonstrate disrespect in the hope of provoking an intemperate response by Judge Engoron. And Judge Engoron is far too experienced and wise to fall for such an idiotic ploy. As quoted from Judge Engoron by @xizor: > Your and your client’s rejection of the reasonable, normal limits I am imposing on any argument by Mr. Trump, which are the same limits that the law imposes on any person making a closing argument, completely justifies the need to impose them. Perfect!!! ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1748 "2024-01-10T20:42:55Z")
Seriously. “You’re not the boss of me,” “I know you are, but what am I?,” “They started it,” “This is so unfair!,” etc., seems to be the extent of their debating skills. ETA: Thanks @Aspenglow! ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1749 "2024-01-10T20:47:15Z")
hey, lower case is awesome, see, ee cummings. my favourite bit is this: “This is very unfair, your honor. You are not allowing President Trump, who has been wrongfully demeaned and belittled by an out of control, politically morivated Attorney General, to speak about the things that must be spoken about.” wow, just wow. how can any lawyer write that? i did enjoy the “you have seven minutes”, and then the all caps. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1750 "2024-01-10T20:52:50Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > the exchange of emails between a judge and a litigant’s attorney is surprising to me as it could be construed as ex parte communication. Or more likely, Letitia James’s team is also included in the communications. Yes to the latter, I think there are more people CCed on all parts of the email exchange than could fit in a courtroom. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1751 "2024-01-10T20:55:54Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I just took it that you thought there was still something to present - I understood @Gyrate point. No worries. I wasn’t clear. _I_ knew what I meant. That’s all that matters, right? ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1752 "2024-01-10T21:11:44Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Seriously. “You’re not the boss of me,” “I know you are, but what am I?,” “They started it,” “This is so unfair!,” etc., seems to be the extent of their debating skills. > > ETA: Thanks @Aspenglow! Heck, it goes all the way back to the first debate with Hillary. “No, you – you’re the puppet!” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1753 "2024-01-10T21:32:33Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > In my day, there were strict rules for how pleadings had to be prepared and submitted, and those rules were enforceable. If a formal pleading did not adhere to the rules for formatting, they would be rejected by the Clerk’s Office, not even shown to the judge. Didn’t Jack Smith have something rejected for having too many words? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1754 "2024-01-10T21:35:17Z")
He went 37 words over the 200-word limit, as I recall. A disgrace he will never live down. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1755 "2024-01-10T21:36:15Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > hey, lower case is awesome, see, ee cummings. Oddly, altho many of his poems were all/mostly lower case with no punctuation, E.E. himself did not type/write his name that way. > **[Myth: E. E. Cummings only wrote in lowercase letters](https://blog.flocabulary.com/myth-e-e-cummings-only-wrote-in-lowercase-letters/)** > > Did E.E. Cummings only write in lowercase letters? Learn about E.E. Cummings and the truth behind the myth. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1756 "2024-01-10T21:36:47Z")
Every time I watch a story about Trump on the news, I recite the last phrase along with the newscasters: “Trump says he did nothing wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1757 "2024-01-10T21:43:55Z")
I heard talking heads (fa fa fa fa) saying that Trump would be able only to speak about evidence from the trial, no grandstanding made up bullshit. That’s a no go for Trumpy, who only ever speaks grandstandingly on made up bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1758 "2024-01-10T21:56:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Didn’t Jack Smith have something rejected for having too many words? > [@Stratocaster](#): > > He went 37 words over the 200-word limit, as I recall. A disgrace he will never live down. That was in the Mar-A-Lago documents case, not this case. No surprise, Judge Cannon in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1759 "2024-01-10T23:58:41Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > my favourite bit is this: > > “This is very unfair, your honor. You are not allowing President Trump, who has been wrongfully demeaned and belittled by an out of control, politically morivated Attorney General, to speak about the things that must be spoken about.” What the Actual Fuck? Trump can blather on as much as he wants about how much he hates the Attorney General. On multiple platforms and in rallies, as much as he wants. And he does. All the time. So spare me the histrionics, Mr. Lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1760 "2024-01-11T05:23:06Z")
Am I remembering correctly? Didn’t habba and Kise ask the judge if he was going to sanction them? Or some other action.? Then they went off the rails. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1761 "2024-01-11T09:22:31Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > What the fuck is up with Trump’s lawyer Kise and their effected use of only lower case letters? [It’s hard for cockroaches to hit the shift key](http://www.donmarquis.org/coming.htm). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=87) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=89)