# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1762 "2024-01-11T11:48:02Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > “This is very unfair, your honor. You are not allowing President Trump, who has been wrongfully demeaned and belittled by an out of control, politically morivated Attorney General, to speak about the things that must be spoken about.” > > wow, just wow. how can any lawyer write that? He can if his client is a narcissistic imbecile who dictates it and demands that it be stated verbatim, or else the lawyer is fired and the sweet, sweet millions he’s extorting from Trump come to an end. It’s no mere coincidence that Trump’s lawyers eventually become a disgrace to their profession and end up either sanctioned or disbarred. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1763 "2024-01-11T13:42:43Z")
That whole ‘stochastic terrorism’ thing continues apace: > **[Bomb Threat Made at Home of Judge in Trump’s Bank Fraud Trial](https://www.thedailybeast.com/arthur-engoron-bomb-threat-made-at-home-of-judge-in-trumps-bank-fraud-trial)** > > A bomb squad rushed to Justice Arthur F. Engoron’s house on Long Island, a source told The Daily Beast. MAGA! ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1764 "2024-01-11T13:50:49Z")
I misread that title as “Brain Fraud” which seems accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1765 "2024-01-11T15:40:29Z")
Seems the closing argument is focused on: “Twumpy is a poor, poor victim. Sad little Twumpy. Please feel sorry for him. Everyone is so mean to him!” Nothing about the actual fraud he committed. Oh no. Just about how it’s so unfair for Twumpy to be prosecuted for fraud because… well because he’s a special boy. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1766 "2024-01-11T16:39:50Z")
this is the lawyer that asked for 3 million up front before starting. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1767 "2024-01-11T16:47:02Z")
You head from an expert Witness - Donald Trump - how he (Donald Trump) didn’t commit fraud - Judge: Donald Trump is not an expert witness in this case “he should be- he’s like really smart and shit” ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1768 "2024-01-11T17:03:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Seems the closing argument is focused on: > > “Twumpy is a poor, poor victim. Sad little Twumpy. Please feel sorry for him. Everyone is so mean to him!” > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > this is the lawyer that asked for 3 million up front This high-caliber lawyerin’ doesn’t come cheap. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1769 "2024-01-11T17:22:20Z")
CNN Live Updates of closing arguments > **[Live updates: Trump civil fraud trial closing arguments](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-civil-fraud-trial-01-11-24/index.html)** > > The judge overseeing the New York civil fraud trial against former President Donald Trump is hearing closing oral arguments on Thursday. Follow here for the latest live news updates. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1770 "2024-01-11T17:24:32Z")
This bit from the summary CNN is giving on Kise’s closing arguments seems like a doozy of a backhanded compliment: > When Kise finished his roughly two-hour presentation, Engoron noted it was “quite the feat of endurance." ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1771 "2024-01-11T17:26:43Z")
Kise done. Habba and Robert yet to go for the defense in the 30 minutes remaining. Then presumably a lunch break and the prosecution gets their shot. edit: Habba speaking now ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1772 "2024-01-11T17:27:06Z")
Maybe Engoron was commenting on his own ability to endure rwo grueling hours of whining, lying, and low-grade tantrum-throwing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1773 "2024-01-11T17:27:33Z")
> [@](#): > > “If they wanted to commit fraud,” Habba said of her clients, “why would they select Deutsche Bank, Zurich Insurance, some of the most sophisticated, highly regulated companies in the world? It makes no sense.” I don’t know where to start with that one, although “Because no US bank would touch them” would be a likely opener. ETA: [Also…](https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/fed-fines-deutsche-bank-186-mln-insufficient-progress-addressing-anti-money-2023-07-19/) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1774 "2024-01-11T17:28:57Z")
I suspect Habba is building up toward the [Chewbacca Defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense) with that line of reasoning. > He asks the jury why a [Wookiee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wookiee) like [Chewbacca](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca) would want to live on [Endor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endor_(Star_Wars)) with the much smaller [Ewoks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewoks) when “it does not make sense”. He argues that if Chewbacca living on Endor does not make sense—and if even mentioning Chewbacca in the case does not make sense—then the jury must acquit. Doubt it’s gonna work on Engoron though. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1775 "2024-01-11T17:31:01Z")
If Wookies won’t mix, you must acquit! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1776 "2024-01-11T17:39:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > “If they wanted to commit fraud,” Habba said of her clients, “why would they select Deutsche Bank, Zurich Insurance, some of the most sophisticated, highly regulated companies in the world? It makes no sense.” > > I don’t know where to start with that one, although “Because no US bank would touch them” would be a likely opener. I guess Madoff must have been innocent too then. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1777 "2024-01-11T17:58:12Z")
Looks like Trump managed to get his way after all. Breaking news on MSNBC is that Trump is addressing the courtroom as part of the closing arguments. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1778 "2024-01-11T18:02:05Z")
> Donald Trump attorney Chris Kise is now asking Judge Arthur Engoron to reconsider letting the former president speak for two to three minutes. > Engoron asked Trump if he will promise to just comment on the facts in the case. > “Well I think your honor that I think this case goes outside just the facts,” Trump responded, speaking from the defense table. > He then launched into a monologue. > “The facts are the financial statements are perfect, that there are no witnesses against us. The banks got all their money paid back. There were great loans," Trump continued. > “This was a political witch hunt,” Trump added, claiming that “we should receive damages." > “We have a situation where I’m an innocent man I’ve been persecuted by somebody running for office and I think you have to go outside the bounds," the former president said. > "What’s happened here sir is a fraud on me,” Trump said. “They want to make sure that I don’t win again and this is partially election interference.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1779 "2024-01-11T18:03:17Z")
Sounds like his big moment is already over. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1780 "2024-01-11T18:17:14Z")
According to CNN he spoke for five minutes. He definitely broke the rules set out by the judge yesterday and shouldn’t have been allowed to speak at all. The judge is a wise man and is doing everything to not give a reason for an appeal. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1781 "2024-01-11T18:26:33Z")
Actually, he was cut off by the judge after five minutes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=90)