# NY AG Letitia James drops the (civil) hammer {On Trump & Family} \[9/21/2022\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [September 21, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991 "2022-09-21T16:13:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 96
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1902 "2024-01-28T04:43:15Z")
“There was an apparent math error in the calculation of …” Math error? How would there be a math error, in this era of COBOL and Excel and nobody does final calculations by hand? ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1903 "2024-01-28T16:29:45Z")
The math error was in computing the probability of sneaking it passed. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1904 "2024-01-28T23:17:30Z")
For those who are interested, I linked to a schedule of the upcoming events in Trump’s civil and criminal trials: > [@Civil Trial: Trump v E. Jean Carroll (Carroll wins, awarded $5 million, plus 83.3 million)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/861): > > Here’s a [44pg PDF](https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Master-Calendar-of-Trump-Court-Dates-Criminal-and-Civil-Cases-Jan.-5-2024.pdf) of the “Master Calendar of Trump Court Dates: Criminal and Civil Cases” for those interested in such things. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1905 "2024-01-29T04:16:02Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Math error? How would there be a math error, in this era of COBOL and Excel… I really don’t know - is the COBOL part a joke? Is COBOL still used? I’ve done a lot of computer programming, in FORTRAN, BASIC, Pascal, C, C++, Perl, Python, Java, Javascript, probably others, but I’ve never laid eyes on a single line of COBOL code. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1906 "2024-01-29T04:31:42Z")
I’ve seen COBOL code, even seen my dad’s SNOBOL cards, but I’ve never coded in them. Either way, I haven’t seen the programming or scripting language that obviates errors. And really every error that involves a computer involves a math error, math is all a computer does. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1907 "2024-01-29T05:13:50Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I really don’t know - is the COBOL part a joke? Is COBOL still used? … My last job was supporting a COBOL system on an IBM midrange. The programs were initially written in the 1990s, and the whole shebang was slated to be replaced, but several vendors who looked at it said they couldn’t recreate the required functionality within their packages (it’s kind of esoteric: liquor and cannabis licensing). Last I looked, it was still running. I know the trend for a good while has been to use other languages for user-facing applications, which is appropriate because COBOL isn’t well-suited for those; but if you looked under the covers of an enterprise system that’s been around for a while, there’s a good chance you’d find COBOL doing the grunt work. > [@scabpicker](#): > > … And really every error that involves a computer involves a math error, math is all a computer does. If the computer is doing bad math — unless there’s a hardware malfunction — it had a bad teacher. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1908 "2024-01-29T05:17:28Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > If the computer is doing bad math — unless there’s a hardware malfunction — it had a bad teacher. Well, yeah. A human probably lies at the heart of all of your computer problems. It might even be _me_. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1909 "2024-01-29T12:55:02Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I really don’t know - is the COBOL part a joke? Wasn’t that long ago that there was an urgent request for COBOL programmers from various state governments, as their unemployment systems were being overwhelmed during the pandemic. > **[Desperate Need for COBOL Programmers During COVID-19 Underlines Importance of...](https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/desperate-need-cobol-programmers-covid-19-underlines-importance-workforce-planning)** > > The dependence of the financial sector, major corporations and parts of the federal government on COBOL, an archaic computer system, underlines the importance of of HR taking the long view of their organization's skill needs and hiring accordingly. Your bank, or its back-end processor, more than likely uses COBOL code. > There are over 220 billion lines of COBOL programming code and 1.5 billion are written each year, which includes the code that powers 80% of in-person financial transactions [Why COBOL & COBOL Developer Are Relevant in 2024?](https://www.integrativesystems.com/cobol-programmers/#:~:text=Conclusion,here%20to%20stay%20for%20long). Yes, IBM Mainframes are still a thing. Back on topic, Trump’s business empire could be dissolved soon. But it probably won’t happen. > **[Taking away Trump’s business empire would stand alone under New York fraud law](https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-business-law-courts-banks-lending-punishment-2ee9e509a28c24d0cda92da2f9a9b689?user_email=c670f76b9ea3e4a287eac163aa636c2982b094e37632506fec6dbc1d27c6da2a&utm_medium=Morning_Wire&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_campaign=Morning%20Wire_29%20Jan_2024&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers)** > > AP’s review of nearly 150 cases since New York’s “repeated fraud” statute was passed showed that nearly every previous time a company was taken away, victims and losses were key factors. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1910 "2024-01-29T13:53:47Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “There was an apparent math error in the calculation of …” > > Math error? How would there be a math error, in this era of COBOL and Excel and nobody does final calculations by hand? Not an accountant, but engineer. In my world, the phrase “math error” is used as a catch-all term to identify inconsistencies that have no reasonable explanation. I remember one meeting where a co-worker was explaining his analysis when a discrepancy was identified. It was not merely the numbers didn’t add up, but a few physical laws were ignored. He called it a math error. I commented that it was more like an Act of God. The guy did do a rather good job, truth be had, and once that wrinkle was ironed out, the project turned out to exceed expectations. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1911 "2024-01-29T18:16:08Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Your bank, or its back-end processor, more than likely uses COBOL code. > > > There are over 220 billion lines of COBOL programming code and 1.5 billion are written each year, which includes the code that powers 80% of in-person financial transactions Wait, I have COBOL routines embedded in my head? Arrgh. That would explain some stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1912 "2024-01-29T18:24:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Wait, I have COBOL routines embedded in my head? If it’s like mine, it’s mostly endless loops. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1913 "2024-01-29T18:27:35Z")
Moderating: > [@CurtC](#): > > I really don’t know - is the COBOL part a joke? Is COBOL still used? I’ve done a lot of computer programming, in FORTRAN, BASIC, Pascal, C, C++, Perl, Python, Java, Javascript, probably others, but I’ve never laid eyes on a single line of COBOL code. > [@scabpicker](#): > > I’ve seen COBOL code, even seen my dad’s SNOBOL cards, but I’ve never coded in them. > [@OttoDaFe](#): > > My last job was supporting a COBOL system on an IBM midrange. > [@Railer13](#): > > Wasn’t that long ago that there was an urgent request for COBOL programmers from various state governments, as their unemployment systems were being overwhelmed during the pandemic. > [@eschereal](#): > > Wait, I have COBOL routines embedded in my head? Arrgh. That would explain some stuff. > [@Railer13](#): > > If it’s like mine, it’s mostly endless loops. We’ve had enough of the COBOL discussion in this thread. Take it elsewhere if it continues. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1914 "2024-01-29T18:30:35Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Not an accountant, but engineer. In my world, the phrase “math error” is used as a catch-all term to identify inconsistencies that have no reasonable explanation. Under the probably unlikely assumption that “math error” doesn’t mean fraud, the next most likely situation is that “math error” means data entry error. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1915 "2024-01-29T19:31:05Z")
Anyone else hear about the letter today where Trump’s financial monitor - a retired federal judge - prepared a letter for Judge Engoron which identified some additional financial shadiness Trump engaged in? Seems he’s claiming he ‘loaned’ himself (as 100% owner of an LLC associated with Trump’s skyscraper project in Chicago) $48 million dollars and no documentation of any sort seems to exist that can corroborate this ‘loan’. [Trump attacks monitor in business fraud case after she reports errors (cnbc.com)](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/29/trump-attacks-monitor-in-business-fraud-case-after-she-reports-errors.html) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1916 "2024-01-29T20:00:37Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Seems he’s claiming he ‘loaned’ himself (as 100% owner of an LLC associated with Trump’s skyscraper project in Chicago) $48 million dollars and no documentation of any sort seems to exist that can corroborate this ‘loan’. Trump can move money around accounts merely by thinking of it in his head. It’s the same process as declassifying sensitive government documents. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1917 "2024-01-29T20:05:43Z")
No doubt. Seems this is the same loan that Mother Jones ran a story about several years ago. [Donald Trump Has Never Explained a Mysterious $50 Million Loan. Is It Evidence of Tax Fraud? – Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/09/donald-trump-has-never-explained-a-mysterious-50-million-chicago-unit-acquisition-loan-is-it-evidence-of-tax-fraud/) ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1918 "2024-01-29T20:11:07Z")
Post 1899 should cover that one, I believe 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1919 "2024-01-31T15:27:03Z")
Tomorrow is Judgement Day. Place your best guess below. The winner\* gets SDMB glory and bragging rights for an entire year! \*‘Price is Right’ rules apply - closest, without going over. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1920 "2024-01-31T15:27:21Z")
$464 million ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991/1921 "2024-01-31T15:30:06Z")
$463,999,999.99 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=95) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-letitia-james-drops-the-civil-hammer-on-trump-family-9-21-2022/971991.md?page=97)