# NY AG sues NRA alleging massive fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422 "2020-08-06T15:55:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/41 "2020-08-06T21:09:08Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > How common is it for a state attorney general to seek to dissolve a nonprofit organization? Not sue or even criminally prosecute the allegedly corrupt people in charge of the group who have been bilking the membership, but dissolve the organization itself? I can’t answer that, but [this NY Times article](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/us/ny-nra-lawsuit-letitia-james.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) says that this same NY AG’s office dissolved Trump’s “charity” org: > “The attorney general’s office previously presided over the dissolution of President Trump’s scandal-marred charitable foundation…” [This article from the National Association of Attorneys General](https://www.naag.org/publications/naagazette/volume_2_number_1/enforcement_of_charitable_organizations.php) has some general information about AG oversight of charitable organizations. My layman’s understanding is that AGs can sanction and fine orgs or, if they find that the corruption is endemic (as in the previously mentioned Trump foundation) that they can dissolve the org and/or impose criminal sanctions for fraud (as one example), ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/42 "2020-08-06T21:16:07Z")
A number of years ago, I actually got a die-hard 2nd amendment supporter to admit that Wayne LaPierre was an asshole. I am a little surprised. I knew LaPierre was making a bundle off of the NRA; why jeopardize it? Then again, running expenses through a conspirator is one of the easiest ways to skim money from an organization. Most of the political corruption in Illinois is of that nature - give an over-priced no-bid contract to a friend. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/43 "2020-08-06T21:22:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The treasurer retired after arranging a $1.8 million consulting contract to teach the new treasurer the ropes. Talk about a fat consulting contract. Even if it were legit, that sort of money buys an awful lot of consulting time. How many billable hours and at what rate, dare I ask? At that price you could even take a high school kid and put him through college and all the extra training he would need. Oakminster seems to think that this will be a political issue, but since the law courts take so long, I don’t think it will influence the election either way. But it should be very entertaining when the execs try to account for the money. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/44 "2020-08-06T21:50:39Z")
I remember seeing articles about a year ago that detailed some of the issues at the NRA, including its relationship with Ackerman McQueen, its former PR firm. There’s [this long article](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/18/magazine/wayne-lapierre-nra-guns.html) from The New York Times Magazine (NYT paywall warning) from December last year and [this Vox.com article](https://www.vox.com/2019/4/30/18510946/nra-finances-lapierre-north-accusations-corruption) from May last year. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/45 "2020-08-06T21:52:56Z")
I just hope this doesn’t get spun into “Democrats attacking our gun rights!!!1!!11” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/46 "2020-08-06T22:15:22Z")
It probably will be spun that way. But even gun rights supporters should see there are problems. Wayne LaPierre was paid $2.2 million in 2018 and various members of the board get consulting and other money from the NRA, its foundation and affiliated companies (Washington Post article [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/nra-money-flowed-to-board-members-amid-allegedly-lavish-spending-by-top-officials-and-vendors/2019/06/09/3eafe160-8186-11e9-9a67-a687ca99fb3d_story.html)). Lots of people still don’t give money to the United Way after a [scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Aramony) over how much the CEO was paid, and that was almost thirty years ago. So I hope that gun rights people don’t ignore the very real issues with the NRA just because they don’t like the people bringing the charges. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/47 "2020-08-06T22:38:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I just hope this doesn’t get spun into “Democrats attacking our gun rights!!!1!!11” I don’t even have to look at the various social mediae to know that that’s a fruitless hope. Given the polarization of today’s world, it’s an absolute certainty that many people will kneejerk that way. Except the way many will phrase it is “Democrats trying to grab our guns!!!1!!!11” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/48 "2020-08-06T23:07:55Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I don’t even have to look at the various social mediae to know that that’s a fruitless hope. Given the polarization of today’s world, it’s an absolute certainty that many people will kneejerk that way. Except the way many will phrase it is “Democrats trying to grab our guns!!!1!!!1” This. Let’s face it. If Democrats introduce a bill to rename a post office, it will be spun into “OMG DEMONRATS ARE TRYING TO STEAL UR GUNZ!!!11” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/49 "2020-08-07T00:46:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This. > > Let’s face it. If Democrats introduce a bill to rename a post office, it will be spun into “OMG DEMONRATS ARE TRYING TO STEAL UR GUNZ!!!11” That’s the thing. You can’t be ruled by fear about what a wild-eyed death-cult is gonna say in response to your actions, especially when they’re gonna say the same thing no matter what you do. Some gun-owners are going to look honestly and sincerely at what’s happening and draw conclusions based on the facts. Others are gonna claim that libruls are conspiring to take their guns. But they’re gonna say that no matter what–so what do I care? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/50 "2020-08-07T02:21:47Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > How is a state going to disolve a global organization? Under what criteria does the NRA qualify as a global organisation? Sure, they aren’t adverse to splashing dosh into foreign political parties in the pursuit and protection of the domestic agenda of their organisation. But, do you know of any country who has welcomed them to set up an office within their jurisdiction? Suspect the rest of the world think they are lunatic, amoral and possibly corrupt political lobby best kept within their current briar patch. They have been considered for inclusion on the anti-terrorism watch list here because of where some of the money they have funneled into fringe ultra right groups actually ends up. > Under Division 102 of the _Criminal Code_ , it is an offence to do things such as direct the activities of, be a member of, recruit for, provide training to, receive training from or participate in training with, provide funds to or receive funds from or provide support to, a terrorist organisation. It is also an offence to associate with a member of a listed terrorist organisation in certain circumstances where such association intentionally provides support to that organisation. > [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > Talk about a fat consulting contract. Even if it were legit, that sort of money buys an awful lot of consulting time. How many billable hours and at what rate, dare I ask? Why would any organisation of the size of the NRA consider appointing as the new corporate treasurer somebody who was so quantifiably unqualified for the job that they required the old one to babysit them while they learned the ropes? Answer, they wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/51 "2020-08-07T02:34:18Z")
The NYS Attorney General’s complaint talks about a consulting contract with the former treasurer (not necessarily the one referenced by **Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness** ). > On May 5, 2018, while [Wilson] Phillips was still the Treasurer of the NRA, Phillips entered into an independent consulting agreement to continue to be paid by the NRA following his retirement. The contract was executed by the NRA President and First Vice President. Pursuant to the contract, the NRA agreed to pay Phillips $30,000 per month for five years for consulting services. In exchange for this monthly payment, Phillips was to “provide advisory services and the benefit of his expertise in all appropriate areas, including, but not limited to, areas related to his prior duties as CFO and Treasurer of the Organization.” As a consultant, Phillips would “coordinate activities with the NRA’s Executive Vice President, Treasurer and CFO, and Executive Director, Office of Advancement to build and maintain relationships with major gifts donors, identify and cultivate relationships with fundraising partners, and identify prospective high net worth individuals to solicit for major gifts.” The contract was signed by the NRA President and one Vice President. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/52 "2020-08-07T03:07:58Z")
There was a lot of reporting of issues within the NRA starting in April 2019, at it appears that the N.Y. AG decided to open an investigation at around that time. I went to check out their rating on Charity Navigator, which had not been updated to reflect the indictment at the time I posted this link. They have a series of links to public reporting on the scandal in chronological order which provide a good (although not current ) overview of the issues. > **[Charity Ratings and Donor Resources | Charity Navigator](https://www.charitynavigator.org/?bay=search.summary&orgid=5450)** > > Use Charity Navigator's ratings and resources to find and support highly rated charities that align with your passions and values. Whether you're looking to give toward international relief, the environment, animal welfare, or something else, we... ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/53 "2020-08-07T03:38:20Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I just hope this doesn’t get spun into “Democrats attacking our gun rights!!!1!!11” Um, see [post #9](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/9). ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/54 "2020-08-07T03:48:10Z")
The current governor of Texas was Texas Attorney General before he ran for the top job. He ran on the platform of “I get up every morning and sue the Federal government.” ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/55 "2020-08-07T09:20:59Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Why would any organisation of the size of the NRA consider appointing as the new corporate treasurer somebody who was so quantifiably unqualified for the job that they required the old one to babysit them while they learned the ropes? Exactly. I was being ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/56 "2020-08-07T13:17:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The NYS Attorney General’s complaint talks about a consulting contract with the former treasurer (not necessarily the one referenced by **Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness** ). That’s the one from the article I read. $30,000/month x 12 months x 5 years = $1.8 million. Pretty sweet money for doing nothing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/57 "2020-08-07T13:28:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s the one from the article I read. $30,000/month x 12 months x 5 years = $1.8 million. Pretty sweet money for doing nothing. - He wasn’t doing nothing. He was _consulting._ ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/58 "2020-08-07T13:37:58Z")
That’s a pretty sweet contract; $600,000 annually. How much was he paid as treasurer before he retired? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/59 "2020-08-07T13:42:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He wasn’t doing nothing. He was _consulting._ [jazzhands]👋_consulting_👋[/jazzhands] Don’t forget your flair. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/60 "2020-08-07T13:57:55Z")
From a Demotivator poster - Consulting : “When you can’t fix a problem, there is good money to be made in prolonging it” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422.md?page=4)