# NY AG sues NRA alleging massive fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422 "2020-08-06T15:55:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/121 "2020-08-09T05:25:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I will use the constitutional power as an attorney general to regulate charities, that includes the NRA, Sigh. Even AGs can’t get this right? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/122 "2020-08-09T05:36:52Z")
From [The New Yorker investigative article](https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/secrecy-self-dealing-and-greed-at-the-nra): > [@](#): > > Marc Owens, who served for ten years as the head of the Internal Revenue Service division that oversees tax-exempt enterprises, recently reviewed these records. “The litany of red flags is just extraordinary,” he said. “The materials reflect one of the broadest arrays of likely transgressions that I’ve ever seen. There is a tremendous range of what appears to be the misuse of assets for the benefit of certain venders and people in control.” Owens added, “Those facts, if confirmed, could lead to the revocation of the N.R.A.’s tax-exempt status”—without which the organization could likely not survive. The NRA needed formal investigation. This would not have been unknown to Letitia James. DrDeth is implying she only went after them because they were on the wrong side. Unless he can demonstrate she has _only_ gone after groups on the wrong side, his argument doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/123 "2020-08-09T05:45:58Z")
At no time did I imply that. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/124 "2020-08-09T05:55:04Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > DrDeth is implying she only went after them because they were on the wrong side. > [@DrDeth](#): > > At no time did I imply that You did imply that, albeit more subtly than I described. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Since the AG of New York made this as one of her expressed election goals, it is hard to believe there isnt some politcal points being made . ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/125 "2020-08-09T06:02:45Z")
She is indeed _making political points._ ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/126 "2020-08-09T06:09:12Z")
Is she doing her job correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/127 "2020-08-09T10:17:36Z")
So as a cite for your unsupported assertion, you offer up an unsupported opinion? I don’t find that convincing at all. Got any facts? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/128 "2020-08-09T12:20:41Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > Sigh. Even AGs can’t get this right? I don’t know what was gotten right or wrong, but the state constitution may be getting referenced there. If it matters. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/129 "2020-08-09T12:41:10Z")
In the most trivially obvious sense, of course this is a political move. People who are elected into office are _politicians_. When they take actions, you can call those actions _political_. Especially when they’re fulfilling the goals that they campaigned on. Our local sheriff campaigned on increasing restorative justice and other diversion campaigns in order to reduce jail populations. Whenever he does so, he’s being political, in this sense. Our governor promised to prioritize education. When he negotiates with the legislator to improve educational budgets, he’s being political. In the sense that the AG is being political, it’s a laudatory role, central to the functioning of democracy. What’s happening here is some classic equivocation. In one sense, this is trivially and obviously and laudatorily political. But it’s being called “political” as an insult, implying that it fits a much less praiseworthy definition of the word. When confronted on this, people are retreating to the laudatory definition. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/130 "2020-08-09T13:01:41Z")
Hahahahaha, you do realize that everyone can see how you selectively snipped that quote, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/131 "2020-08-09T13:28:57Z")
Uncommon, but not rare, is consistent with his claim. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/132 "2020-08-09T14:50:44Z")
No, that’s not true. His original claim was that this type of action (seeking to dissolve a corp rather than just suing individuals) was “generally” not done. He offered no cite for this assertion. Meanwhile, I have cited at least four cases in the last couple of years where this one AG’s office has done so; LHOD has cited several others. Now, obviously the word “generally” can be interpreted with a large degree of variance, but as far as I’m concerned, the claim has been disproven. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/133 "2020-08-09T15:08:28Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > My uncle who owned guns for hunting, reaction, and protection always told me the NRA … I’m curious what “reaction” means in this context. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/134 "2020-08-09T15:09:40Z")
It presumably means “recreation” got autocorrected. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/135 "2020-08-09T15:34:33Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > No, that’s not true. His original claim was that this type of action (seeking to dissolve a corp rather than just suing individuals) was “generally” not done. He offered no cite for this assertion. Meanwhile, I have cited at least four cases in the last couple of years where this one AG’s office has done so; LHOD has cited several others. > > Now, obviously the word “generally” can be interpreted with a large degree of variance, but as far as I’m concerned, the claim has been disproven. YMMV. I “generally” don’t drink coke with sugar in it. I have done so four times in 2020. It is uncommon, but not rare. ETA that doesn’t mean he’s correct, just that his English is correct. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/136 "2020-08-09T15:41:29Z")
Do you actually disagree with her actions? If not, then I fail to understand what your point is here. If so, then explain what actions you disagree with, and why, rather than just casting aspersions. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/137 "2020-08-09T16:17:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > She is indeed _making political points._ You are correct IF: One party’s political platform is that the AG should investigate any potential crimes when there are many red flags, insiders claiming crimes have been committed, and direct evidence shoved in your face that a charity is corrupt. While the other party’s political platform is that the AG should ignore these red flags if the charity is doing things you like, such as funneling foreign money to your election campaign. By this definition, then you are correct - the Democrat AG’s actions in upholding the law is “political”, because the other party’s politics puts their OWN well being ahead of the law. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/138 "2020-08-09T18:25:12Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I don’t know what was gotten right or wrong, I just made a post on how the NRA itself is not a charity although it is a non-profit - there are many different classifications of non-profits. A 501c4 “Social welfare organization” like the NRA is close to a charity, and one might say the only real difference between them and 501c3s is that 501c4s are able to lobby and contributions to them aren’t tax-deductible, so I guess there’s room saying that 501c4s are close enough, but only 501c3s should really be called charities. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/139 "2020-08-10T00:30:00Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I “generally” don’t drink coke with sugar in it. I have done so four times in 2020. It is uncommon, but not rare. > > ETA that doesn’t mean he’s correct, just that his English is correct. The question is not whether nonprofits generally get dissolved by AGs. Of course they don’t. The question is whether nonprofits that are thoroughly riddled with corruption at the highest levels generally get dissolved by AGs; and it looks to me like that’s a fairly common remedy _in this tiny subset of nonprofits_. To show otherwise, it’d be helpful to see some cases where nonprofits with analogous levels of corruption faced lesser penalties. I dunno, maybe that’s common; but given the lack of a single example of such, I’m unconvinced. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422/140 "2020-08-10T03:30:56Z")
All right, let us take for granted that the NRA does have a few top officers committing fraud and defalcation. I think LaPierre is a crook myself, so i am willing to accept this. Then why did the NY AG file _a civil suit_ to dissolve the NRA instead of filing _criminal fraud charges_ against LaPierre and cohorts? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-ag-sues-nra-alleging-massive-fraud/917422.md?page=8)