# NY Post's Clinton headline **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021 "2014-09-30T21:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/21 "2014-10-01T14:25:33Z")
… is _Business Insider_ a liberal rag? And really, why does anyone care about an _NYP_ headline? Do we also get panty-twisted when _Weekly World News_ makes up a pregnancy/divorce/homosexuality scandal about a politician or celebrity? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/22 "2014-10-01T14:57:21Z")
I, for one, need to be assured of Bat Boy’s character before he gets my vote. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/23 "2014-10-01T15:27:00Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I, for one, need to be assured of Bat Boy’s character before he gets my vote. You know he had two ABORTIONS, right? Why are people not asking about that? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/24 "2014-10-01T16:04:27Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Yeah. I don’t remember the Newark Star-Ledger running anything similar. I certainly don’t recall the Boston Globe or the Denver Post or the Miami Herald mocking the Bush daughters or the Palins. New York Times editors would probably resign before writing such clap-trap. Even the New York Daily News, the chief rival of the New York Post, has not, to my knowledge, done such a thing. > > I want evidence for this particular tu quoque. Smartest people on the internet, and the correct meaning of “tu quoque” remains a mystery to the vast majority of the posting population. The “Business Insider” link was already posted. [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/07/AR2008090702646_pf.html) coverage: > [@](#): > > Campaign officials were deluged with questions from reputable news outlets about the governor’s amniotic fluid, the timing of her contractions and whether she would take a DNA test to establish the baby’s parentage, not to mention bogus charges about her son being a drug abuser. There’s an important distinction here – mainstream outlets have not given such rumors any credence – but that is lost on frustrated McCain aides who have to ask Palin about each new line of inquiry. I’m not sure the OP’s headline “gave the story any credence” either – they just reported on it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/25 "2014-10-01T16:32:29Z")
**Bricker** , at what point in your life did you give up trying to justify the actions of the Right, and fall back on “_They Do It Too!_”, as if that is justification enough for any action? Are you incapable of admitting that the headline, in and of itself, is slimy trash…or must a counter-example, no matter how slim, be displayed as some sort of mathematical/sociological formula that magically cancels the first action out? Is that how it works in your head? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/26 "2014-10-01T16:33:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/07/AR2008090702646_pf.html) coverage: > > I’m not sure the OP’s headline “gave the story any credence” either – they just reported on it. And with a rather sympathetic tone toward the governor, on the whole (it looked that way to me, anyway). I often look to you for enlightenment wrt some of the more esoteric concepts I encounter here on the Dope, btw. Could you indulge me with an explanation of the correct meaning of _tu quoque_? TIA ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/27 "2014-10-01T16:43:47Z")
I used to work with the wife of a Post editor. She used to say, “Just because you read it in the NY Post doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not true.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/28 "2014-10-01T16:45:37Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > And with a rather sympathetic tone toward the governor, on the whole (it looked that way to me, anyway). > > I often look to you for enlightenment wrt some of the more esoteric concepts I encounter here on the Dope, btw. Could you indulge me with an explanation of the correct meaning of _tu quoque_? > > TIA [If I may.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/29 "2014-10-01T16:48:49Z")
I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/30 "2014-10-01T16:50:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’m pretty sure that was sarcasm. And of all people not to get it…:smack: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/31 "2014-10-01T17:32:33Z")
> [@andros](#): > > As Post headlines go, that’s actually not bad. Not too far from clever, actually. I was amused by it. It had a poop joke and a crybaby joke about an actual baby. Can’t ask for more from a newspaper headline. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/32 "2014-10-01T17:44:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Smartest people on the internet, and the correct meaning of “tu quoque” remains a mystery to the vast majority of the posting population. > > The “Business Insider” link was already posted. > > [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/07/AR2008090702646_pf.html) coverage: > > I’m not sure the OP’s headline “gave the story any credence” either – they just reported on it. Sarah Palin chose to run for political office and was fair game for mockery and derision. Show me a similar headline from a major newspaper mocking her grandson for just being born and you may have a point. I want to see a New York Daily News headline (or similar liberal slanting tabloid) mocking a Bush grandchild or a Reagan grandchild in a similar manner. This is like the time that asshole Rush Limbaugh made fun of twelve year old Chelsea Clinton’s looks. It’s disgusting and inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/33 "2014-10-01T17:47:42Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > It’s disgusting and inappropriate. …But apparently only if nobody else has ever done something vaguely like it before somewhere. Then it is justified. Right, **Bricker**? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/34 "2014-10-01T18:01:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Juvenile and insulting, NY Post. > > But of course, both sides do it, **Lobohan** ’s contrary entreaties notwithstanding. > > And this is one of the the few things Democrats did better. “Sarah Palin Faked Her Pregnancy!” Every bit as false, but not nearly so identifiable as such. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Yeah. I don’t remember the Newark Star-Ledger running anything similar. I certainly don’t recall the Boston Globe or the Denver Post or the Miami Herald mocking the Bush daughters or the Palins. New York Times editors would probably resign before writing such clap-trap. Even the New York Daily News, the chief rival of the New York Post, has not, to my knowledge, done such a thing. > > I want evidence for this particular tu quoque. > [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Sarah Palin chose to run for political office and was fair game for mockery and derision. Show me a similar headline from a major newspaper mocking her grandson for just being born and you may have a point. > > I want to see a New York Daily News headline (or similar liberal slanting tabloid) mocking a Bush grandchild or a Reagan grandchild in a similar manner. This is like the time that asshole Rush Limbaugh made fun of twelve year old Chelsea Clinton’s looks. It’s disgusting and inappropriate. So now that you’ve got the evidence, you’ve decided it doesn’t matter? How about MSNBC panelists mocking Kieran Romney for having the temerity for being born brown and adopted by a Romney? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/35 "2014-10-01T18:01:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [If I may.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque) Yeah, when I noted that the link had already been seen by me I figured it was the wikipedia entry. Still, I would like to know **Bricker** ’s response, so maybe I can learn why he considers it to have been improperly used upthread. If it’s simply because it means _“you too”_, and it’s being used to mean _“your side too”_, I intend to call shenanigans. IME, though, **Bricker** doesn’t usually get caught out like that. OTOH, he did specify “meaning” rather than “usage,” so who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/36 "2014-10-01T18:01:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > And with a rather sympathetic tone toward the governor, on the whole (it looked that way to me, anyway). > > I often look to you for enlightenment wrt some of the more esoteric concepts I encounter here on the Dope, btw. Could you indulge me with an explanation of the correct meaning of _tu quoque_? > > TIA Two Cock is the fallacy that one persons argument is more important that another’s because he has an over-abundance of cock. I think… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/37 "2014-10-01T18:15:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about MSNBC panelists mocking Kieran Romney for having the temerity for being born brown and adopted by a Romney? Is that how you remember it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/38 "2014-10-01T18:20:25Z")
I hope you are not suggesting that his word is insufficient? Please keep in mind you are talking about a poster who’s simple candor and straightforward honesty is legendary! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/39 "2014-10-01T18:20:40Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Yeah, when I noted that the link had already been seen by me I figured it was the wikipedia entry. Still, I would like to know **Bricker** ’s response, so maybe I can learn why he considers it to have been improperly used upthread. > > If it’s simply because it means _“you too”_, and it’s being used to mean _“your side too”_, I intend to call shenanigans. > > IME, though, **Bricker** doesn’t usually get caught out like that. Really? When have I ever rested any argument on something like that? _Tu quoque_ is a logical fallacy when it is used as an ad hominem attack. It’s not a logical fallacy in the following hypothetical conversation: ANDREW: Americans are so much more rude at sporting events than Brits. REGGIE: That’s not true. Both countries produce rude people in generally equal proportion. ANDREW: Oh, yeah? Well, it was at an American sporting event that a fan chucked a full can of beer at an Iowa State University cheerleader’s head because he favored the rival team. REGGIE: Yes, and British soccer hooligans have been arrested overseas for much more serious acts of violence! ANDREW: Tu quoque! Tu quoque! Andrew is wrong. At the risk of sounding pedantic, do you see why? Answer: because the subject under discussion is precisely the presence of misbehavior by both Americans and Brits. It’s absolutely relevant, and not remotely an ad hominem attack, to point out instances of misbehavior by Brits to counter the argument that such misbehavior is only, or largely, confined to one side. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021/40 "2014-10-01T18:22:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is that how you remember it? [What a good thing we have video](http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2013/12/30/pure-class-msnbc-panel-mocks-romney-familys-black-adopted-child-n1770040), and don’t need to rely on memories: > [@](#): > > As Harris-Perry made the introduction, panelist Pia Glenn sang “One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn’t the same,” a tune whose original lyrics read “one of these things doesn’t belong.” “And that little baby, front and center, would be the one,” she added…Comedian Dean Obeidallah chimed in by reducing the baby to a token. “I think this picture is great,” he said. “It really sums up the diversity of the Republican party, the RNC. At the convention, they find the one black person.” Whatever you think of the quality of the jokes, using a baby to make a political punchline is a tough sale, with a high bar for comedy and commentary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-posts-clinton-headline/700021.md?page=3)