# NY Times crosses a line today (fucked). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 19, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792 "2019-04-19T21:01:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/21 "2019-04-20T16:46:45Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > If/when we get Trump dropping an N bomb on tape, I wonder if the Times will print it. Why wouldn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/22 "2019-04-20T16:56:31Z")
Missed the edit window. There’s this from 2018: > [@](#): > > **Trump Used Racial Slur During ‘Celebrity Apprentice,’ Former White House Aide Says** > > President Trump frequently used the word “nigger” while he was the host of the reality television show “Celebrity Apprentice,” and there are tapes that can confirm it, according to a new memoir by one of Mr. Trump’s former White House advisers, Omarosa Manigault Newman. -[NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/us/politics/omarosa-donald-trump-racial-slur.html) ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/23 "2019-04-20T17:55:19Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Missed the edit window. > > There’s this from 2018: > > -[NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/us/politics/omarosa-donald-trump-racial-slur.html) Huh. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/24 "2019-04-20T18:14:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > What thread are you reading? No one has said that at all. > > Some people have expressed objections to the President’s use of language in an official capacity. As far as I can see, no one has objected to the Times printing the word, just remarked that it is notable for a newspaper of record. The OP: > [@](#): > > Our local paper quoted Trump as having said he was f\*\*ked. Not the Times. They used the fulbtw.l word in an editorial today and also in a news story. I wonder whether that was a special exception or will now be considered acceptable. The New Yorker crossed that line at least a decade ago. This was the print edition The title of the thread was the _NY Times_ crosses a line. Not Trump. And that they used the full word. I got the impression that the OP was angry that the newspapers didn’t censor his words. Crossing a line usually means doing something that’s unacceptable, or not appropriate. If my impression was wrong, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/25 "2019-04-20T18:15:23Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Missed the edit window. > > There’s this from 2018: > > -[NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/10/us/politics/omarosa-donald-trump-racial-slur.html) Interestingly, the word “nigger” was an addition by the Times itself, rather than a quote (although it appears in quotes). Omarosa said she never heard Trump use it herself, and in her quotes she refers to it as the “N-word.” They not only didn’t hint at the word themselves, they explicitly used the word Omarosa was hinting at. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/26 "2019-04-20T18:25:03Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The title of the thread was the _NY Times_ crosses a line. Not Trump. And that they used the full word. I got the impression that the OP was angry that the newspapers didn’t censor his words. Crossing a line usually means doing something that’s unacceptable, or not appropriate. > > If my impression was wrong, I apologize. No, crossing a line doesn’t necessarily mean something is wrong, just that it goes beyond what has previously been considered appropriate. (For example, Star Trek crossed a line on broadcast TV by showing an interracial kiss between Kirk and Uhura. Crossing that line was a good thing.) The OP actually didn’t express an opinion about his personal feelings about this. Perhaps he does feel that this represents the decline of Western Civilization, but he hasn’t said so.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/27 "2019-04-20T18:29:51Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I can remember when certain words were “unprintable,” and a highly-respected mainstream newspaper would not have printed them—even if they were newsworthy quotes, they would be rendered as “f\*\*\*” or “expletive deleted.” I’m old enough to remember a time when even some dictionaries didn’t include “fuck.” (When I was in grade school it was very daring to look up dirty words in the dictionary. We were often disappointed.) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/28 "2019-04-20T19:17:29Z")
It used to be that prominent Americans weren’t used to being quoted verbatim, particularly if there were curse words involved. When I was posted in Lisbon, a new politically appointed ambassador arrived with her rich husband and bratty child in tow. The husband engaged in conversation with a member of the press at a cocktail party, not realizing that “off the record” really isn’t a concept in Europe. The reporter asked him what he did, since he didn’t have an official job. The schmuck replied: “Well, I have a small office in the embassy, and the rest of the time I just fuck the ambassador.” It was quoted verbatim in the local Lisbon paper, much to everyone’s amusement. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/29 "2019-04-20T19:25:07Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > much to everyone’s amusement. Almost everyone’s. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/30 "2019-04-20T19:48:54Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > What thread are you reading? No one has said that at all. > > Some people have expressed objections to the President’s use of language in an official capacity. As far as I can see, no one has objected to the Times printing the word, just remarked that it is notable for a newspaper of record. This. I was surprised, that’s all. As I said, the Montreal Gazette quoted, “I’m f\*\*ked.” As I said, the New Yorker has been using “fuck” for decades. My 80 year old etymological dictionary has two entries f **k and c** t for each of which it comments, “One of two SE [standard English] words that cannot appear in print anywhere in the English speaking world.” This illustrates how much the world has changed in 80 years. I am mildly curious if there are any expletives that have replaced them, now that they are tame enough to appear in the newspaper of record. What do you do when you really have to be profane? ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/31 "2019-04-20T20:11:27Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > This. I was surprised, that’s all. As I said, the Montreal Gazette quoted, “I’m f\*\*ked.” As I said, the New Yorker has been using “fuck” for decades. > > My 80 year old etymological dictionary has two entries f **k and c** t for each of which it comments, “One of two SE [standard English] words that cannot appear in print anywhere in the English speaking world.” This illustrates how much the world has changed in 80 years. I am mildly curious if there are any expletives that have replaced them, now that they are tame enough to appear in the newspaper of record. What do you do when you really have to be profane? Trump? Ok, maybe not quite yet, but soon! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/32 "2019-04-20T21:16:45Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > What do you do when you really have to be profane? You don’t listen to much rap, I take it.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/33 "2019-04-20T21:31:34Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Interestingly, the word “nigger” was an addition by the Times itself, rather than a quote (although it appears in quotes). Omarosa said she never heard Trump use it herself, and in her quotes she refers to it as the “N-word.” They not only didn’t hint at the word themselves, they explicitly used the word Omarosa was hinting at. The word appears in quotes because that’s standard practice when you are talking about the word rather than using it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/34 "2019-04-20T21:33:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You all seem to be forgetting that Obama once wore a tan suit. And Biden once whispered a phrase including the big bad F word into his ear, not knowing his mike was on. :o We were discussing that the next day at a meetup, and I replied that had he done this a few weeks earlier, he would have had to deal with his mother, who had just died. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/35 "2019-04-20T21:34:12Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > This. I was surprised, that’s all. As I said, the Montreal Gazette quoted, “I’m f\*\*ked.” As I said, the New Yorker has been using “fuck” for decades. > > My 80 year old etymological dictionary has two entries f **k and c** t for each of which it comments, “One of two SE [standard English] words that cannot appear in print anywhere in the English speaking world.” This illustrates how much the world has changed in 80 years. I am mildly curious if there are any expletives that have replaced them, now that they are tame enough to appear in the newspaper of record. What do you do when you really have to be profane? Kate Winslet flipped someone the old bird in “Titanic.” I have since learned that yes, it did mean that back then. The infamous child serial killer Albert Fish was also quoted as using that word in a police interview. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/36 "2019-04-20T22:14:56Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > This. I was surprised, that’s all. As I said, the Montreal Gazette quoted, “I’m f\*\*ked.” As I said, the New Yorker has been using “fuck” for decades. > > My 80 year old etymological dictionary has two entries f **k and c** t for each of which it comments, “One of two SE [standard English] words that cannot appear in print anywhere in the English speaking world.” This illustrates how much the world has changed in 80 years. From [etymonline,](https://www.etymonline.com/word/fuck) “fuck” didn’t appear in any English dictionary between 1795 and 1965, including the OED. It was actually outlawed to be used in print in the UK (1857) and US (1873). As the article says, the barriers began to be broken down in novels in _Ulysses_ (1933) and _Lady Chatterley’s Love_ (1959). By the late 1960s it was no longer daring in adult literature. However, in 1969 Jefferson Airplane could sing “fuck” and “motherfucker” on _We Can Be Together_, but [substituted “fred” for both words in the lyrics in the liner notes](https://www.songfacts.com/lyrics/jefferson-airplane/we-can-be-together). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/37 "2019-04-20T22:36:22Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > My 80 year old etymological dictionary has two entries f **k and c** t for each of which it comments, “One of two SE [standard English] words that cannot appear in print anywhere in the English speaking world.” I find that delightfully paradoxical, if the entries are actually “fuck” and “cunt” and not “f **k" and "c** t.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/38 "2019-04-20T22:44:41Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I find that delightfully paradoxical, if the entries are actually “fuck” and “cunt” and not “f **k" and "c** t.” My understanding is that **Hari** is saying they appear with the asterisks. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/39 "2019-04-20T22:52:59Z")
I just checked my Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary (Unabridged), published in 1979, and to my surprise it lacks fuck, cunt, and even shit. The definition for “crap” only includes the meanings for the dice game crap and a kind of buckwheat. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/40 "2019-04-21T01:59:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I just checked my Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary (Unabridged), published in 1979, and to my surprise it lacks fuck, cunt, and even shit. The definition for “crap” only includes the meanings for the dice game crap and a kind of buckwheat. That’s around the time when one of my high school English teachers told us to never use a dictionary that doesn’t include “those words”, because they are a part of the language, like it or not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792.md?page=3)