# NY Times crosses a line today (fucked). **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 19, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792 "2019-04-19T21:01:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/41 "2019-04-21T06:42:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > From [etymonline,](https://www.etymonline.com/word/fuck) “fuck” didn’t appear in any English dictionary between 1795 and 1965, Merriam-Webster’s Third Unabridged is kind of strange on these words. It was published in 1961 and didn’t have any of them. But they periodically published supplements with new words. Those were initially published as an addendum at the back, but later (by the time it got up to 6,000 words) as a separate book too. Anyway after it became acceptable for dictionaries to include those taboo words, they put them to the addendum. So in the middle of all these recently coined words are a scattering of very old four-letter words. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/42 "2019-04-21T20:39:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I find that delightfully paradoxical, if the entries are actually “fuck” and “cunt” and not “f **k" and "c** t.” No, I quoted it exactly. Why would I bowdlerize it in this thread? Exactly how where the statutes Colibri mentioned worded? Did the use the forbidden words in the statute? If not how could they specify them? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/43 "2019-04-21T20:57:16Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Exactly how where the statutes Colibri mentioned worded? Did the use the forbidden words in the statute? If not how could they specify them? The statutes in question were the [Obscene Publications Act of 1857](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscene_Publications_Act_1857)in the UK and the [Comstock Laws of 1873](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comstock_laws) in the US. They did not define what obscenity was, but made publishing it illegal. What words were included would have been on the basis of “I know it when I see it.” Since everyone would agree that “fuck” and “cunt” were obscene words, in practice it made their publication illegal. Before that their publication would not have been a crime (although publishing obscene works was a misdemeanor in the UK from 1824). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/44 "2019-04-22T17:37:13Z")
Then I apologize for misunderstanding. I also remember looking up “dirty words” in the dictionary, but we never looked up swears, since I don’t think they had any in the dictionaries we had at our school. Mostly they were words that kids at that age thought were “dirty” like “sex”, “penis”, “buttocks” etc. You know how easily amused kids are. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/45 "2019-04-22T17:46:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This isn’t the first time that “fuck” has appeared in print in the Times. They did it in 2016, as well, once again while quoting the president. What was the quote? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/46 "2019-04-22T18:33:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The statutes in question were the [Obscene Publications Act of 1857](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscene_Publications_Act_1857)in the UK and the [Comstock Laws of 1873](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comstock_laws) in the US. They did not define what obscenity was, but made publishing it illegal. What words were included would have been on the basis of “I know it when I see it.” Since everyone would agree that “fuck” and “cunt” were obscene words, in practice it made their publication illegal. Before that their publication would not have been a crime (although publishing obscene works was a misdemeanor in the UK from 1824). Is it possible that such laws would have been considered unconstitutionally vague? Okay, “fuck” and “cunt” would have been obvious, but how about lesser expletives? Such as “shit”, or even “mothah”? If the crime is left undefined, how can you be accused of committing it? In Quebec, such words as “chalice” and “tabernacle” are perfectly acceptable in some contexts and vile obscenities in others (using sacred words profanely). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/47 "2019-04-22T18:47:28Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Is it possible that such laws would have been considered unconstitutionally vague? Okay, “fuck” and “cunt” would have been obvious, but how about lesser expletives? Such as “shit”, or even “mothah”? If the crime is left undefined, how can you be accused of committing it? Important Supreme Court decisions changed the definition of obscenity. [Roth v. United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_v._United_States) (1957) said that obscenity was material whose “dominant theme taken as a whole appeals to the prurient interest” of the “average person, applying contemporary community standards.” [Miller v California](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v._California)(1973) said that obscenity was material that lacks “serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value”. At this point, that standard would be so difficult to prove that in effect almost anything goes in the written word. Photos or videos are OK as long as they depict activities involving consenting adults. Whatever standards are applied are mainly imposed by the publisher or broadcaster rather than being legal ones. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/48 "2019-04-22T20:49:04Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Merriam-Webster’s Third Unabridged is kind of strange on these words. It was published in 1961 and didn’t have any of them. But they periodically published supplements with new words. Those were initially published as an addendum at the back, but later (by the time it got up to 6,000 words) as a separate book too. Anyway after it became acceptable for dictionaries to include those taboo words, they put them to the addendum. So in the middle of all these recently coined words are a scattering of very old four-letter words. I never trusted Noah Webster in the first place— IMO he wasn’t a very nice character— if it was he who selectively censored words when initially compiling his dictionary it doesn’t do much to redeem the picture. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Webster viewed language as a tool to control unruly thoughts. His _American Dictionary_ emphasized the virtues of social control over human passions and individualism, submission to authority, and fear of God; they were necessary for the maintenance of the American social order. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/49 "2019-04-22T22:32:07Z")
> [@RadioWave](#): > > I was wondering something similar about last nights Twitter dump. Since RealDonaldTrump has been ruled an official venue of government communication, is this the first time the word “Bullshit” has been used by a President in an official capacity? > > > [@](#): > > > > …agreed to testify, it was not necessary for me to respond to statements made in the “Report” about me, some of which are total bullshit & only given to make the other person look good (or me to look bad). This was an Illegally Started Hoax that never should have happened, a… …but enough about the Presidential Easter Message to the nation… ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/50 "2019-04-23T17:43:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Truman, Johnson, Nixon and others certainly talked like that. The difference is that they didn’t put it in writing. With Johnson we have tapes such as the one of him ordering pants and needing room for his bunghole. ---
**Author:** ![KMS94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ad7895/32.png) [@KMS94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KMS94)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/51 "2019-04-23T18:30:56Z")
My local paper published the term “Massholes” in a recent opinion piece. I’ve of course heard some of our neighbors to the South referred to as such, but I have never seen it in a newspaper. Google says it was added to the OED in 2015. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/52 "2019-04-23T19:49:45Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > With Johnson we have tapes such as the one of him ordering pants and needing room for his bunghole. The Watergate Tapes made “EXPLETIVE DELETED” part of the language. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/53 "2019-04-24T13:14:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Hari Seldon** : > > My 80 year old etymological dictionary has two entries f **k and c** t for each of which it comments, “One of two SE [standard English] words that cannot appear in print anywhere in the English speaking world.” This illustrates how much the world has changed in 80 years. I am mildly curious if there are any expletives that have replaced them, now that they are tame enough to appear in the newspaper of record. What do you do when you really have to be profane? As a nitpick, “fuck” and “cunt” aren’t profanities. Nor are they swears nor curses, but they are obscenities and vulgarities. Those are five separate categories, though there can be some overlap. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792/54 "2019-04-24T13:54:29Z")
The Washington Post first published the word ‘shitty’ back in 1982. It published, uncensored, the transcript of the conversation between the National Airport tower and the Air Florida 90 pilots just before that flight took off, then crashed into the 14th Street Bridge seconds later. One of the pilots used that word to describe the weather conditions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ny-times-crosses-a-line-today-fucked/832792.md?page=2)