# NYC cabbie stabbed for being Muslim. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428 "2010-08-25T18:22:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/21 "2010-08-25T20:59:03Z")
It probably would have been a call center employee first, if not for the difficulty of stabbing someone down a phone line. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/22 "2010-08-25T21:02:42Z")
Yes, it happens everywhere, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to stop it here. We should try to stamp out hatred and bigotry here, and people in other parts of the world should also try to stamp it out there. If we (“we” meaning all of humanity, not just Americans) just shrug our shoulders and say “Eh, it’ll happen anyway”, then the world will be a far worse place. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/23 "2010-08-25T21:03:49Z")
> [@furt](#): > > We are waaaay better than the average. Miles beyond. > … > We have the same DNA as people in those “benighted” places you expect us to be so much better than. So, how do you account for that? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/24 "2010-08-25T21:04:00Z")
I wasn’t talking about the cab driver, who appears to be blameless. I was talking about the OP, who when there is an attack against Muslims blames the broader society, and when a Muslim commits an attack, he seems to do the same thing. There is a thread around about the “blame America firsters.” Perhaps these should be merged. Look, I don’t have rose-colored glasses here - this is likely an ugly racist or xenophobic attack. However, we don’t have a lot of information yet, and people have been stung before by proclaiming upon these cases prematurely. Look up the Duke rape threads for a lovely example of this. And even if this is an attack motivated by hate, why is it OK in some circles to extrapolate from the hate of a lone nut and make broad societal conclusions about him when he is not a Muslim but terribly bigoted when that nut is Muslim? I think we all would agree that a person looking at Nidal Hasan and making assumptions about Muslims would be mistaken or worse. The OP is wrong. At best it is a overreaction to an emotional event, at worst it is a deliberate appeal to emotion that obscures the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/25 "2010-08-25T21:13:54Z")
Who is leading the attack against Muslim rights nowdays? Surely no one is so blind as to claim that there is no demonization going on this summer? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/26 "2010-08-25T21:23:15Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I wasn’t talking about the cab driver, who appears to be blameless. I was talking about the OP, who when there is an attack against Muslims blames the broader society, and when a Muslim commits an attack, he seems to do the same thing. I think you’re imagining things. None of that was in the OP. > [@](#): > > There is a thread around about the “blame America firsters.” Perhaps these should be merged. This is gratuitous and uncalled for. > [@](#): > > Look, I don’t have rose-colored glasses here - this is likely an ugly racist or xenophobic attack. However, we don’t have a lot of information yet, and people have been stung before by proclaiming upon these cases prematurely. Look up the Duke rape threads for a lovely example of this. What information would change this? > [@](#): > > And even if this is an attack motivated by hate, why is it OK in some circles to extrapolate from the hate of a lone nut and make broad societal conclusions about him when he is not a Muslim but terribly bigoted when that nut is Muslim? I think we all would agree that a person looking at Nidal Hasan and making assumptions about Muslims would be mistaken or worse. > > The OP is wrong. At best it is a overreaction to an emotional event, at worst it is a deliberate appeal to emotion that obscures the facts. We live in a culture where Islamaphobic hostility and scapegoating is socially acceptable and perpetuated by the meda and one of the major political parties. We don’t have to accept THAT, do we? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/27 "2010-08-25T21:28:24Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Shark\_Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Shark\_Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shark_Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/28 "2010-08-25T21:31:02Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Will we experience a few of these, or many more? Will we take action to curb the fear mongering? I fear this is only the start. We ain’t seen nothin’ yet. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/29 "2010-08-25T21:59:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > What information would change this? Maybe the cabbie was just plain mugged and decided to play the religion card for added attention. Not saying that is the case, I am willing to accept it went down as we are being told but it is possible to conceive of other alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/30 "2010-08-25T22:19:12Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Wouldn’t that apply all over the place, though? The OP condemns this attack as a sad indication of anti-Muslim bigotry. Perhaps this is so - hard to tell from an incident when it has just happened. It’s true we don’t need to accept the story as being wholly true just because it’s in print. Assuming that it’s somewhat accurate it seems being asked , “Are you a Muslim?” and then being stabbed repeatedly might be seen as anti Muslim. > [@](#): > > But incidents like the Fort Hood shooting - the OP seems to condemn that but laments that this might also bring about anti-Muslim sentiment. > > [Link.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12827067&postcount=533) You’ll have to explain what led you to this incorrect conclusion because nothing in that post implies anything like your conclusion. > [@](#): > > Now, surely I don’t wish violence or hatred upon anyone - but the OP seems to bend over backwards to ensure that Muslims are never fully responsible for their actions. And far from a just treatment, this is an infantilizing and insulting argument. I challenge you to show any post where I’ve implied any such thing. FTR, my attitude is that people are fully responsible for their actions and words. We are human and occasionally given to bias and cases where emotion overcomes reason and our better nature. What I hope for is that we are aware of that and working to make things better rather than embracing emotion over reason and reactionary fear over steadfast courage. I hope we work to improve our society and live up to our founding principles rather than abandon them when the challenge to live by them isn’t easy. I find it dangerous and destructive when large groups are demonized because of the actions of a few and I’m aware it is a two edged sword. We have a legacy of racism with our own black citizens but I don’t excuse black violence and hatred because of it. It is, however still destructive to society as a whole. Recently it’s been about demonizing Muslims as if all 1.5 billion must share the same beliefs and philosophies even though we should easily understand that’s not true. It’s also about politicians and media who are willing and even eager to wield that demonetization as a handy tool for their own benefit regardless of the the backlash. It’s just despicable. Sadly there are too many who are willing to swallow the fear mongering and their resentment begets resentment in Muslims both here and abroad, and an act of violence at Fort Hood breeds and act of violence in NYC cab as each group justifies their fear and violence by blaming the other. My concern is for my country and and the loss of lofty principles we sing about and claim to hold some pride in. I don’t expect us to live up to them perfectly at every turn but I’d like to believe that we as a society can make progress and not slip back into the same mistakes we made in the past {mentioned in your link} ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/31 "2010-08-25T22:22:14Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > > [@friedo](#): > > > > This has nothing to do with “American character” or Societal Implications or the Noble Fight Against Bigotry and Intolerance. It has to do with a crazy motherfucker who stabbed a guy. Such creatures always have and always will exist, irrespective of the level of enlightened fuzzy-wuzzies achieved by a culture. > > Quoted for truth. Nutjob crazy looney tries to kill someone is not a shocking turn of events. The fact that the someone happened to be Muslim says nothing about America’s character. > > What it says is that we need to be on the lookout for nutjob crazy loonies. True, but nutjobs can be encouraged as individuals and as groups by those who fear monger for profit and power. We can’t prevent every act by nutjob loonies but can we at least create an atmosphere that doesn’t encourage them. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/32 "2010-08-25T22:28:25Z")
[Apparently](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/what_we_know_about_michael_enright.php) the alleged stabber is an international film student who [trained](http://m.lohud.com/detail.jsp?key=343865&rc=wc&full=1) in Pashtu before going to Afghanistan to make what he called a “non-political” movie about Marine operations there, and who has been volunteering for a year at an interfaith community organization that has been working in support of Cordoba House. It seems unlikely that someone of that background would have been acting under the sway of crude media influences, but of course anything’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/33 "2010-08-25T22:28:35Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > > [@hajario](#): > > > > There have been others. One guy killed a liquor store owner who was a Sikh. The killer was too fucking stupid to know the difference and thought that he must be a Muslim because he wore a funny hat. > > Yeah, the Hindu temple in my town was defaced shortly after 9-11 (thankfully nobody was hurt). Apparently they also couldn’t tell the difference between it and the mosque down the street… Right after 9/11 a couple of Indian guys I worked with got harassed at a club simply because of dark skin. I get concerned when I read post after post on message boards of people condemning what “Muslims do and believe” as if there’s no differentiation and radical Christian churches burning Korans and preaching about a holy war against Islam. For Christ’s sake people! Or for your own sake, stop giving the poison seed a place to grow. Stop cooperating with the pricks who are manipulating you and getting rich as a result of turning people against each other. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/34 "2010-08-25T23:02:07Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I wasn’t talking about the cab driver, who appears to be blameless. I was talking about the OP, who when there is an attack against Muslims blames the broader society, and when a Muslim commits an attack, he seems to do the same thing. > > There is a thread around about the “blame America firsters.” Perhaps these should be merged. I’d say you’ve read my posts through the lens of your own bias. You speak of responsibility. I’m an American and my sphere of influence is in America. My goal is to encourage the society I live in to be better not to blame them. Once again, rather than unsubstantiated accusations and incorrect conclusions, please explain, if you can what exactly seems like I’m blaming America first. > [@](#): > > Look, I don’t have rose-colored glasses here - this is likely an ugly racist or xenophobic attack. However, we don’t have a lot of information yet, and people have been stung before by proclaiming upon these cases prematurely. Look up the Duke rape threads for a lovely example of this. I’ve acknowledged that we don’t know for sure that a first report is the whole truth. My overall concerns remain the same regardless > [@](#): > > And even if this is an attack motivated by hate, why is it OK in some circles to extrapolate from the hate of a lone nut and make broad societal conclusions about him when he is not a Muslim but terribly bigoted when that nut is Muslim? I am not making statements blaming all members of any group for the acts of a few. My concern is based on the evidence I see that too many Americans are being swept up by the fear mongers in the media and politics. It’s not just Park 51 but protests about proposed Mosque’s in other cities and evidence on TV and in articles that people are embracing and believing the distortions of the fear mongers and using blanket terms about Muslims doing this bad thing and believing this horrible thing without intelligently differentiating between groups. The display of ignorance and fear disturbs me because I care about my country and don’t want that to be what we’re known for. > [@](#): > > I think we all would agree that a person looking at Nidal Hasan and making assumptions about Muslims would be mistaken or worse. In the same token people looking at the beliefs of some Muslims and then repeating them as if all Muslims embraced those practices are mistaken or wrose, and yet I see enough of that language to raise my concerns. > [@](#): > > The OP is wrong. About what specifically? I thought I asked a couple of questions. > [@](#): > > At best it is a overreaction to an emotional event, at worst it is a deliberate appeal to emotion that obscures the facts. It may be an overreaction to this story based on my concerns about the apparent success of fear mongers to stir up religious intolerance and continue to keep the 9/11 wound open and pour salt in. What facts am I obscuring? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/35 "2010-08-25T23:16:16Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > [Apparently](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/what_we_know_about_michael_enright.php) the alleged stabber is an international film student who [trained](http://m.lohud.com/detail.jsp?key=343865&rc=wc&full=1) in Pashtu before going to Afghanistan to make what he called a “non-political” movie about Marine operations there, and who has been volunteering for a year at an interfaith community organization that has been working in support of Cordoba House. > > It seems unlikely that someone of that background would have been acting under the sway of crude media influences, but of course anything’s possible. Surprising for sure. It also mentioned that a law enforcement source said he was making nonsensical statements. We’ll have to wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/36 "2010-08-25T23:19:56Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Wouldn’t that apply all over the place, though? The OP condemns this attack as a sad indication of anti-Muslim bigotry. Perhaps this is so - hard to tell from an incident when it has just happened. > > But incidents like the Fort Hood shooting - the OP seems to condemn that but laments that this might also bring about anti-Muslim sentiment. I agree to a point. There is a strong possibility–not yet established in this event–that this sort of violence can be promoted by the Becks, Hannitys, Limbaughs, Franklin Grahams, and other hate mongers in the U.S. (or Gingrichs and Palins who are willing to ride that hate vehicle for their own gain), just as events like those perpetrated by the Fort Hood shooter can be promoted by the words of Osama bin Laden, Sayyid Qutb, Abu Hamza al-Masri, and others. The difference is that the anti-Muslim bigots use our media to promote their agenda, so we have an opportunity to oppose them in public while we have less opportunity to oppose the haters on the other side. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/37 "2010-08-25T23:32:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > > [@Mr.Moto](#): > > > > Wouldn’t that apply all over the place, though? The OP condemns this attack as a sad indication of anti-Muslim bigotry. Perhaps this is so - hard to tell from an incident when it has just happened. > > > > But incidents like the Fort Hood shooting - the OP seems to condemn that but laments that this might also bring about anti-Muslim sentiment. > > I agree to a point. There is a strong possibility–not yet established in this event–that this sort of violence can be promoted by the Becks, Hannitys, Limbaughs, Franklin Grahams, and other hate mongers in the U.S. (or Gingrichs and Palins who are willing to ride that hate vehicle for their own gain), just as events like those perpetrated by the Fort Hood shooter can be promoted by the words of Osama bin Laden, Sayyid Qutb, Abu Hamza al-Masri, and others. The difference is that the anti-Muslim bigots use our media to promote their agenda, so we have an opportunity to oppose them in public while we have less opportunity to oppose the haters on the other side. Kinda what I was trying to get at without putting it so well. I don’t like fear mongering by Muslims any more than than my Beck. I just don’t have any say at AL Jazeera for example Nidal Hasan apparently had an Imam that encouraged him and others to choose Muslim over America. No pass for that guys hate speech either. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/38 "2010-08-25T23:36:09Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Y’know, in various parts of the world, Muslims are being killed for being Muslims, Hindus are being killed for being Hindus, Buddhists are being killed for being Buddhists, Christians are being killed for being Christians, Animists are being killed for being Animists… People are killed for being the wrong color, tribe, sexual orientation or the fan of the wrong sports team. > > Is there some sort of universal pattern … hmm … no, it’s just America that sucks. I really don’t know what exactly you’re babbling about but I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with this thread. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/39 "2010-08-25T23:49:41Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > And I contest your thesis that actions like this will lead us to confront our own inner fears and bigotry and to test our resolve concerning our founding principles and American Character. The people who are doing this think they _have_ resolve concerning our founding principles and American Character - they just think that “American Character” means “not muslim”. (Among other things.) Contest away, I didn’t state any thesis. Conflict and confrontation can go several ways. We can embrace enmity and the fear of them being different , or we can use that conflict to educate ourselves and others and initiate conversation and the search for peaceful solutions. > [@](#): > > And, what action _could_ we take to curb actions like this, that we aren’t already doing? He’s already been arrested and charged with a pile of things, including hate crime. What more should we do? Confiscate all knives? Profile and preemptively imprison bigots? What? I would say we need to to try and do something about the presence of too much fear mongering in our political dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428/40 "2010-08-25T23:58:02Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Contest away, I didn’t state any thesis. Conflict and confrontation can go several ways. We can embrace enmity and the fear of them being different , or we can use that conflict to educate ourselves and others and initiate conversation and the search for peaceful solutions. The latter happens? I’m seriously grasping for examples. There might be some cases of _overreaction_ to events rather than underreaction/support, but when has a conflict inspired both sides to engage in dialogue? (Specifically excluding cases where we have treaty talks with somebody whose balls we have to the wall due to military action.) > [@cosmosdan](#): > > I would say we need to to try and do something about the presence of too much fear mongering in our political dialogue. Like what? Fear _mongering_ isn’t done due to ignorance, and when it comes to the ‘professional’ hatemongers, I don’t think they’re powered by ideology, either. I think it’s money that drives them. And so to stop the hate, you’d have to either stop the money, or make it illegal to say such things. Problem is, the money tree waters itself; persons who actually buy their line often refuse to listen to opposing views, 'cause the guys proposing them are The Enemy. So I don’t think you can cut off the audience or the sponsors or the funds. Unless you make something about their speech illegal. Which has been done in places…but do we really want to go there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nyc-cabbie-stabbed-for-being-muslim/551428.md?page=3)