No … you’re beginning to see it, and I’m asking for evidence of what I think is a myth. You are making the claim (an increase in overt acts of religious intolerance), and I am asking you to support it.
Cause from where I’m sitting, if Fox is trying to incite violence, they’re doing a shitty job.
Looking up the incident you mentioned I fail to see how it relates. Nothing about what happened and the years it took to resolve it indicates the Jewish objections were correct and the Pope was properly sensitive. If general respect is a two way street when are the protesters of Park 51 going to show their respect to Americans who think this controversy is an insult to the 1st amendment?
And it seems to a lot of non Muslim Americans that you and other protesters are incorrect. A lot of Non Muslim religious leaders in NYC endorse it, as well as some family members of 9/11 victims. Whose feelings should matter most? Whose feelings should Imam Rauf placate? Will it help ease the fears of the protesters in TN and CA if Park 51 is relocated?Would it be insensitive for Muslims who lost family at 9/11 to pray at GZ?
IMO the choice we’re facing is to leave the wound of 9/11 open by encouraging religious intolerance or to embrace the 1st amendment even in spite of an emotional response. The question is also if we will let dishonest profit driven media manipulate us by an appeal to our baser nature.
What? I’m dealing with a current situation. Are you referring to churches burned down recently?
Are you suggesting the anti Muslim sentiment is a normal acceptable level of human nature? No need to be concerned that it’s on the rise or that the practices of a major media outlet have fanned the flames?
Are we at war? Is radical Islam a a serious threat? If so, do our relationship with other Muslims play a role? Can we help prevent violence by forging decent relations with those Muslims who want to promote peace and understanding, or do we spit in the face of their efforts and continue to treat them as non Americans because of their religion?
There was no anti-Muslim sentiment after 9/11? I know at least three people either in my family or who were family friends who experienced hostility. I think it’s easy to say how great and friendly most Americans are if you aren’t considered part of the enemy.
But they’re *not *trying to incite violence. They’re trying to incite controversy, and ratings, and some Republican victories in the next election. And I think the Republicans are glad to have a convenient distraction from their voting against the 9/11 First Responders funding- you know, that issue which happened just days before we started hearing about the “Ground Zero Mosque”, and which made the Republicans look bad? It’s all just one big distraction, a way of saying, “Hey! Look over there!”
And in that, they’re most assuredly *not *doing a shitty job.
Again, be cautious in your wording. Has anyone claimed Fox is trying to incite violence. I’d say they care about profits and don’t care if their methods of generating profit hurts others or not.
I’m making the claim that breeding religious intolerance or any form of bigotry is bad for our society and increases our chance of seeing a violent response. In the case of Islam and American Muslims it also relates to our problems with Islam on a global basis. If we accept open displays of religious intolerance directed at Islam and allow a major media outlet and political party use fear mongering directed toward Islam to succeed in their agenda what does that do to our security?
I think the evidence is there for a rise in anti Muslim sentiment when we consider the links and protests against Mosques in places around the country. Let’s add a scheduled Koran burning, fundamentalist Christians speaking of Islam {as a whole} as part of a holy war and Pat Robertson claiming it’s not a religion. We have anti Muslim groups forming that believe Islam as a whole is out to get us. Yeah, I think there’s more than enough evidence that it’s not a myth and there’s good reason to be concerned and consider steps to counter.
I know it’s a mistake but I’d like to point out that I didn’t say that. You messed up the quote tags. What Fox does a shitty job of is focusing on facts and real news.
Simply put and exactly right.
To repeat: your claim was that there is some increase in “overt acts of religious intolerance,” that somehow TV blathering has incited people to behave assholishly to Muslims at a greater rate than normal. I am asking for support for that claim. Not your fears, not anyone’s impressions, but something approaching cold hard facts. Any police agencies reporting an uptick? Reporters identifying a pattern?
No? Then it’s a non-issue. A manufactured media-driven scare tactic, the same as when they come on with “17 children in America died because of X this year” and ignore the fact that 14 died from X last year and 19 the year before that. Yeah, it’s sad for those kids, but it’s a miniscule number, it’s not a trend, and it’s not something that people need to stress over. And yet the news will pimp it because fear sells papers.
We’ve been hearing for a decade how Americans are so Islamophobic … and yet, year after year, there are no actual crimes committed. You ever hear anything about anti-asian crime? It’s more common than anti-muslim crime. You ever hear about waves of anti-semitism? It’s waaaay more common than anti-Muslim crime.
Yep, there’s a segment of mouthbreathing redneck America that lives in terror the Mooslims are gonna kill us all, and conservative media and pols cater to them.
There’s also a segment of urban sophisticate America that lives in terror of mouthbreathing redneck America, and liberal media and pols cater to them.
In sum: unless you got facts, you’re trading in fear and supposition same as Fox.
Is anti-Semitic violence so common right now in America?
After the towers went down, I thought the smart thing was rebuild it as fast as possible. Then the scar would be gone and healing could proceed
It seems some love to revel in hate and anger. Building a mosque would show the world how over 911 we are. But stopping it shows some of us are at war with a religion. Now other mosques across the country are being attacked. It will be fuel for those around the world who claim we are anti Muslims and at war with their religion. How do we defend against that? This protest is a stupid mistake.
Bah, my apologies. Apparently the new nested quote system does a shitty job of making it easy to quote people.
Where exactly did I make this specific claim? Once again you’re misrepresenting my posts. I started this thread as a question about the possibility of, so ohers could offer input , insights, and opinion.
and you’ve been given specific facts Are they irrefutable and can I prove beyond doubt one is causal of the other? No. It is , however reasonable to at least consider that a Koran book burning and extreme anti Islam rhetoric by certain Christian groups, the existence of other anti Muslim groups, campaigning against Mosques,in other states besides NY might be encouraged by a major media outlet, a host of radio shows and blogs,are contributing to the atmosphere. One act of vandalism in CA was directly linked to the Park 51 with a sign saying “No temple for the god of terrorism at Ground Zero.”
For you.
A manufactured media-driven scare tactic, the same as when they come on with “17 children in America died because of X this year” and ignore the fact that 14 died from X last year and 19 the year before that. Yeah, it’s sad for those kids, but it’s a miniscule number, it’s not a trend, and it’s not something that people need to stress over. And yet the news will pimp it because fear sells papers.
. So other bigotry is solace for anti Muslim bigotry? That’s an interesting take on things. Personally I don’t find it comforting. The elements of hatred and religious and racial prejudice certainly crosses boundaries but we are currently dealing with a long term issue with Islam.
Would you say we have a real concern about possible terrorist attacks? Would you say our overall relationship with Muslims has some realistic effect on that possibility?
My concerns are about making it better rather than accepting things that make it worse.
Not the same. I’m looking at the facts without purposely distorting them. I have no profit driven agenda but a concern for our direction one.
It does. You have to be careful about exactly what you delete and what you leave. See?
I;ve seen a lot of anti asian violence recently, but I’ve been watching my Kung Fu series DVDs. Kick some ass Kwai Chang!
Well…
There’s two I doubt would have happened without the current climate.
And before you go off on “it’s only two” note the whole thing is just ramping up now and seeing a rise in the statistics of anti-Muslim violence will take time to develop and then appear in official numbers.
Also, answer how many more “incidents” you are ok with. If there is more anti-Muslim violence elsewhere then I guess you figure a bit more in the US is not a big deal. So, how much more before it is a big deal to you?
Or, not trying to blow up airplanes would show the world why we should be over 9/11.
An entirely different group of people did that. You are demonstrating the same kind of mentality that led to supporting the invasion of Iraq under the theory that since there were Muslims there they somehow they deserved to be massacred for 9-11.
Sorry, I missed the speech declaring war on Muslims. I thought we were attacking a mass-murdering dictator who wouldn’t cooperate with UN inspection mandates.
No, we attacked a country in a war of conquest, making sure to do so before he could comply and by doing so prove us to be the liars we were. And we murdered plenty of people there ourselves, not to mention torture and all the rest; we are in no position to pretend moral superiority over Saddam Hussein there.
He was actually cooperating with the UN inspection teams, (who had voluntarily withdrawn a couple of years earlier after his people had caught our people using the UN teams as cover for spying).
If the rationalization was that he was not cooperating with the inspection teams, then that rationalization was an utter lie.